Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Babbling priestess+fire on a tower+natives=?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Babbling priestess+fire on a tower+natives=?

    ... early, deadly crossbows.

    I've decided I REALLY love the Native Amercians. They are now my favorite civ. PHIL is an awesome trait, and PRO is underrated... especially when it synergizes with your civ's special abilities.

    I recently made the move from Prince to Monarch level. 1st thing I noticed is that Dog rushes are nearly impossible now, it seems that all AI civs start with archers (tho not archery). My last Prince game I was able to Dog rush both Mansa Musa and Isabella with the same 2 Dog Soldiers and basically had won the game at that point.

    However they now have a new mission- anti-barb patrols. Since I play Raging Barbs, having Dogs w/o worrying about copper is extremely helpful. 4-5 Dog Soldiers is usually enough to keep the hordes at bay.

    As for the thread title, I have been trying- and failing- to get feudalism early with the Oracle. Normally my 1st Great Person is a Prophet, and that was the problem. I've taken another route which works very well, but is a little risky. Instead, build the Great Lighthouse 1st. This will guarantee you a Great Merchant, and if you have Bronze Working (which you'd better) and Pottery (not hard to get) you can lightbulb Metalcasting. Then build the Oracle and select Machinery. You'll need Iron Working and an Iron resource of course, but then you'll have Crossbows while everyone else is running around with Archers and Sword/Axemen. Plus as the Natives you'll have the PRO bonuses as well as the 2-3 promotions at build. In my current game I wiped out both the Indians and the French, and the only reason I didn't destroy the Chinese was because I had to stop fighting and build up my economy. I had Crossbows in 800 bc. Probably could've done better but I had some early problems with barbs despite my Dog defenses. Also I think that Machinery can be lightbulbed with an Engineer (as can Metalcasting, so lightbulb that, build forge, add Eng specialist and then lightbulb Mach) so just building the Pyramids alone might have been better, but I didn't have Stone and I did have Marble.

    I think I might try this with the Chinese next time... No early UU to fight off barbs but they still have PRO archers. Plus IND will help with the Wonder building and their UU is the nastiest crossbow out there.
    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

  • #2
    I usually stick with the Oracle---> Code o Laws catapult. I usually never get Buddhism or Hinduism, so the religion is a good boost, as well as the courthouses, and its a prereq for Civil Service/Bureacracy. Native Americans are nice tho... them Dog Soldiers have a pretty reasonable shelf life.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Babbling priestess+fire on a tower+natives=?

      Originally posted by Theben
      ... I've decided I REALLY love the Native Amercians. They are now my favorite civ. PHIL is an awesome trait, and PRO is underrated... especially when it synergizes with your civ's special abilities...
      A really underrated civ, which can be played many ways. Good UU and early useful UB.

      Originally posted by Theben
      ... I think I might try this with the Chinese next time... No early UU to fight off barbs but they still have PRO archers. Plus IND will help with the Wonder building and their UU is the nastiest crossbow out there.
      And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

      Comment


      • #4
        Native Americans cannot be rushed in early games. Not even Praetorians get through their defenses.

        Comment


        • #5
          I rushed Sitting Bull with Ragnar warrior's once... took about 15 warriors to put 2 archers & 3 warriors down...

          Comment


          • #6
            Sure you can rush the NA's early on. If all they have are dogs/archers, the obvious rush unit is the chariot (better yet, Immortals or War Chariots). I've done it.

            If they have metal, and thus spears, no. Then you gotta hang back.

            -Arrian
            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

            Comment


            • #7
              I took out Sitting Bull with an Bowman rush as Babylon. I don't think even he had archery yet. Of course this was on Noble, such a tactic would probably fail hard on the higher difficulties.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Marcusem78
                I usually stick with the Oracle---> Code o Laws catapult. I usually never get Buddhism or Hinduism, so the religion is a good boost, as well as the courthouses, and its a prereq for Civil Service/Bureacracy.
                After BW I usually aim for Monotheism, and more often than not I'm the 1st to get it. That gives me the double benefit of a religion and Org Rel civic.

                After that I'll lightbulb Theology and CoL with Great Prophets... they tend to have a short span of usefulness anyway.
                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                Comment


                • #9
                  Inspired by this thread, I decided to try out the Native Americans, and aim for early x-bows. Playing huge, terra, noble, I managed to take out 3 civs with one dog warrior Unfortunatley, the extra upkeep forced my economy into the toliet, so I won't be able to tech my way to super early 6-str archery units (and I'm playing as Churchill, so I don't have the great people to bulb my way to feudalism or machinery in a timely manner.) Still, it's a wonderful problem to have. So, I can't comment on Native American x-bows, but the dog warrior rush sure works.
                  You've just proven signature advertising works!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Churchill of the Natives almost requires you to have Stonehenge.

                    The Dog rush almost always works Prince->lower... it just depends whether or not they've archers. You can usually guess depending on the civ. The builder/religious civs tend to not have archers as quickly as most others.
                    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      However, the AI seems not to play the NA correctly. In everyone of my games, NA falls way behind in the tech race.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        DW warriors perform well when injured as well, but not below the 1/4 reduced health
                        anti steam and proud of it

                        CDO ....its OCD in alpha order like it should be

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          NA are suited to rush, and the AI does not rush well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have played a few games with the NA due to them looking quite good on paper but I haven't had much success with them. Does anybody have a good initial build/research order and other starting tips for them?

                            Should I go hunting->archery for archers at first or go for mining->BW for Dog Soldiers, I guess I would have to work in mysticism for Totem Polls/Stonehenge somewhere as well.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Virulent
                              I have played a few games with the NA due to them looking quite good on paper but I haven't had much success with them. Does anybody have a good initial build/research order and other starting tips for them?

                              Should I go hunting->archery for archers at first or go for mining->BW for Dog Soldiers, I guess I would have to work in mysticism for Totem Polls/Stonehenge somewhere as well.
                              Well, my experience is a little tainted by playing noble/marathon, but I find mining->BW the way to go. 3-4 early dog warriors, promoted with city raider from barbs, will destroy warriors and have about 40% odds on archers, so if you have numbers, which you likely will if you move quick enough, you can do some damage. I took out 3 civs with 1 dog warrior once, but that was flukey, and on marathon, I think I would have seen more archers on normal. Build order would be warriors and workers (with emphasis on workers, but you want to grow too.)until you get BW, then 3-5 dog warriors whipped and chopped, then start expanding as normal.
                              If you want Stonehenge, start with mysticism first, and start building it asap, the AI builds that sucker quick, and you aren't industrious. Stone actually doesn't help too much, because you need 3 techs to access it. If you go for stone resource , I wouldn't bother with the dog rush, you want to research your stone techs asap, and fifth tech dog warriors are just too late to rush effectively. Actually, I wouldn't go for the dog warrior rush at all with stonehenge, because even if you go myst->mine->BW, your early hammers are going to go to stonehenge, not dogs, and by the time stonehenge is done, it will be too late.
                              To sum up stonehenge strat, research myst/mine/BW/any techs you need to hookup resources/meditation/priesthood(for oracle)/pottery/writing/oracle monarchy, using the oracle for feudalism would be even better, but I can't research monarchy before I have to let the oracle build or the AI gets it./feudalism. This gets you longbows.
                              Or, you can research myst/mine/BW/any techs you need to hookup resources/meditation/priesthood(for oracle)/pottery/metal casting (you may have to oracle this)/iron working (this can go before metal casting, especially if you plan to oracle metal casting./machinery (hopefully you can oracle this) This gets you crossbows.
                              Of course, you could use theben's strategy at the beginning of the thread, which most likely works better than mine anyway. If you do use mine, after getting your bows, go polytheism/monotheism so you can use the prophet you popped from stonehenge and the oracle to get theology. Proceed to rape and pillage.
                              You've just proven signature advertising works!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X