Build Ratio

[logicman49]

I am curious to understand how you build military to building ratios. I find that I need to build 3 units to every 1 building to stay afloat with units or I get killed if attacked. Very occassionally, I build an extra building that I may need. Like something to make citizens happy or a lighthouse for food or a wonder that I want. Any thoughts on this? I seem to always have issues not being able to keep up techwise or with units in case of war. Does the ration change as the game progresses?

Steve

[Cyrus The Mike]

I've noticed that too. I'm usually attacked with a force equal to Gods army and I'll only have like 3-4 units per city (which isn't a lot considering i'm allways crammed into a small peninsula.)

I'm also pterbed by the way sid say cities being taken. tell me, how do I lose a battle with a hevely armored spearmen (or swordsman as they like to use even though most civilisations likes to use spears exeps the Romans but their sword was way too short? it must have been the armor.) againces a couple pf archers when the city has no walls? are these magic arrows thet can pearce bronze? I use RTW a lot when judging troop strength and in by book archers can beat armered infantry.

maybe its just me, maybe I like things a little too real, maybe I just like to rant but I have stopped playing Civ mostly because of that flaw that the AI is this amasing machine that cam pump out an army in 5-6 turns.

(somehow I know I'm going to get yelled at too)

[snoopy369]

There is no 'building to unit ratio'. Buildings should be built when they are net useful, and not built when they are not. Cities who build lots of commerce should have the various commerce buildings, cities with reasonable numbers of hammers should have forges and factories, your GP city should have whatever you need to generate the type(s) of GP you need, etc. If you stick to building necessary buildings and don't build any unnecessary buildings, you will have plenty of units

[rah]

The answer is city specialization. You can support your economy and science for your whole civ with a few core cities. The rest of your cities should be cranking units and don't require much in the way of infrastructure.

The only extra advice I have is that if you build a big army, you'd better be using it, otherwise it's just wasting money. Then defend your core cities. If one of your border cities lose, who cares, you can take it back at your own choosing.

[Marcusem78]

While the AI IS very efficient at whipping units, and at higher difficulty levels has freer unit upkeep costs, the AI does usually work in SOD tactics. Thus, while their SOD may be intimidating, once you destroy it, their cities are usually garrisoned by 2-3 units. As long as you can move quickly.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Cyrus The Mike
I've noticed that too. I'm usually attacked with a force equal to Gods army and I'll only have like 3-4 units per city (which isn't a lot considering i'm allways crammed into a small peninsula.)

I'm also pterbed by the way sid say cities being taken. tell me, how do I lose a battle with a hevely armored spearmen (or swordsman as they like to use even though most civilisations likes to use spears exeps the Romans but their sword was way too short? it must have been the armor.) againces a couple pf archers when the city has no walls? are these magic arrows thet can pearce bronze? I use RTW a lot when judging troop strength and in by book archers can beat armered infantry.

maybe its just me, maybe I like things a little too real, maybe I just like to rant but I have stopped playing Civ mostly because of that flaw that the AI is this amasing machine that cam pump out an army in 5-6 turns.

(somehow I know I'm going to get yelled at too)

Archers can beat spearmen easily. First off, the spearmen don't have great ability to charge a city anyhow - spear is not an effective melee weapon when compared to even the daggers the archers will use for melee, and they don't have the ability to climb walls or whatnot. Second, at close range arrows can pierce most armor easily, and plenty of opportunity to get around armor into the soft spots. Third, spearmen won't be full plate armor, that's a Knight or a Maceman, who will mow down archers like tall fescue. Spearmen likely don't have any armor, and/or maybe have bronze chain mail at best.

If you don't like AIs coming in with large armies, then you should probably play BtS. BtS has a much 'less' aggressive AI by default, and a more aggressive option with Aggressive AI checked.

The AI can't build much bigger of an army than you can, except at very high levels, also; it chooses to build units when you choose to build buildings, nothing more. 3-4 units per city is not usually enough, and the right 3-4 units would be better anyway; usually you should have 2 units per city except on borders and risky water spots, and then large stacks focused on wiping out enemy stacks nearer potential attack areas.

Finally - you of course hit it on the head with 'realism'. Civ doesn't claim to be a realistic simulation like RTW or such; it's an abstracted strategy game with historical elements to make it feel more real, but it's certainly not realistic, and happily dumps realistic in exchange for fun, balanced gameplay. Civ has a good assortment of units, all in all, that are well balanced for what they are, such that you don't just have a few different units, but a wide assortment that have different abilities and optimal uses. Just look at the 'useless unit' thread - nearly all of the selections are actually useful units in some situations (just not in others), and given the number of units Civ has, that's pretty impressive.

[Marcusem78]

Well said.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by rah
The answer is city specialization...

Be sure to have at least one military city always building promoted units. A second coastal military city for ships with medic (build Red Cross) gives you a strong navy. Only stop building units when you need specialized Buildings/National Wonders/Wonders.

[wodan11]

How many units you need to hold off barbs is dramatically influenced by size of fog territory, whether you have raging barbs set, and whether you're able to have military technological superiority.

I find that when I fogbust, it's dramatically easier.

Wodan

[snoopy369]

At least one mil specialized city? Any city not specialized in something else is a mil specialized city, and you should have many of them

[rah]

A fact that MP reinforces regularly.

[Kc7mxo]

Originally posted by Cyrus The Mike
I've noticed that too. I'm usually attacked with a force equal to Gods army and I'll only have like 3-4 units per city (which isn't a lot considering i'm allways crammed into a small peninsula.)

land is power, if you don't have any land, take someone elses. You need to be aware of your neighbor, and your power. If your power graph is weak, then your neighbors will think you look like a good target. best thing though is to build your own stack and go cram them into a small penisula!

I'm also pterbed by the way sid say cities being taken. tell me, how do I lose a battle with a hevely armored spearmen (or swordsman as they like to use even though most civilisations likes to use spears exeps the Romans but their sword was way too short? it must have been the armor.) againces a couple pf archers when the city has no walls? are these magic arrows thet can pearce bronze? I use RTW a lot when judging troop strength and in by book archers can beat armered infantry.

Those are armies, not indivudals. And arrows can pierce bronze armor. And most any city has defenses, thats the +% underneath it. I consider the walls just an added defense in addition to the cities normal walls. I think they should have had cities showing walls automatically once it got past +20% and then had a citadel instead of walls building, and a fortress instead of a castle building.

maybe its just me, maybe I like things a little too real, maybe I just like to rant but I have stopped playing Civ mostly because of that flaw that the AI is this amasing machine that cam pump out an army in 5-6 turns.

(somehow I know I'm going to get yelled at too)

It does sound like RTW might be more your taste ( I like that game a lot too).

But on Noble the AI doesn't cheat, lower than that its handicapped. If it can do it on noble, you can do it too.

[Vampgelus]

You guys always talk about having a few core citys ruling the economy, and, in simple terms, all the others just building units. What does "a few" mean ? For national wonders you need already 8 of them, even more with modded map-scripts.

And the "no forge in commercial city's" thing... i don't understand this at all, since theese citys will need many buildings and does not have so many hammers. Logically i'd say that theese are the citys benefiting the most of a forge.

I'm always having all the available buildings in all my citys wiht only a few exeptions, mainly because i may need a marketplace for increasing happycap more then anything else (running at >80% science, the gold bonus is ridiculous). Playing like this is the only way for me to stay in tech lead wich IS necessary since the AI does in deed always have much more units as i have, so that i need to have better ones instead of having as much.

Of course, in the end i get such a tech lead that the game becomes boring by playing like this, but i think it is the fastest way to win. (btw, tech lead is better then IND trait IMHO, since you are the only one having the tech when starting a wonder, the early ones being the only exeption to that rule).

[rah]

Learned from Snoopy, if you produce more than your neighbor, you win.
Your science rate isn't the critical thing here. If you're producing 800 beakers at 80 percent or 800 at 60 there is no difference.
Instead of building those x number of courthouses to build the FB you built all troops, you'd soon have your neighbors land, his wonders, his shrines, his infrastructure. Why build courthouse when you can take them.
The game is about numbers.
Everyone talks about keeping the tech lead. If you have it and use it early, it's immaterial later. A massive number of highly promoted troops can destroy superior ones. And the odds are they'll be eliminated by then.

Now if you're going for SPACE SHIP VICTORY, then it's different. But don't forget the lessons learned.

[rah]

and if you're taking land and producing 2x the number of units as your neighbor, you can cherry pick a few more cities to add infrastructure to.