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  • What Units DON'T You Build?

    This is a spin-off of the worst non-UU unit thread. I am curious which units you personally tend to ignore, forget about, dislike, bypass, etc.

    Here are some of mine:

    -Archer. While archers can be very useful, I tend to try to go for axemen et al as soon as possible, which can be useful for both offense and defense, so researching archers is something I often don't want to take the time to do. If I can get them in a trade or free tech or something, great, but otherwise, I will typically grin and bear it with warriors until I get me some Axemen.

    -Horsies (chariots, horse archers, knights, cavalry). In some specific circumstances in particular games, I may build some, like some chariots to help deal with barbarians, or horse archers if I end up in an early crappy metal-poor area. However, the lack of defensive ability of these units means that their dual use ability is quite limited and usually there are non-horse units that are close enough to their offensive advantages that I don't feel the loss for them.

    -Elephants. All the disadvantages mentioned above, plus they are slow.

    -Catapults. I typically prefer to wait until I get trebuchets. And early on, some pumped up axemen or macemen don't really need catapults all that much, not against archers and axemen and the like. It's not until you get nasty bowmen or a protective opponent that you start feeling the need for some artillery.

    -explorers. I don't understand why these are even in the game.

    -triremes. I built one last night to chase away a pesky pirate ship. That's about all I ever do with them.

    -almost all other naval vessels. Let's see. What naval vessels do I actually use? A couple of caravels to circumnavigate or in some cases propagate a religion, etc. Galleys for early amphib stuff. Sometimes an ironclad to protect a rich coastline. Some frigates or later destroyers for convoy protection. Once in a while a battleship. If I need to do some heavy long distance amphib stuff, carriers are nice--esp. because you can also stick them in ports for "extra fighter airfields." And of course transports. The reset of the stuff I never use.

    -machine guns. Again, i don't like any unit which is not dual use--offensive and defensive.

    -anti-tank. Come too late.

    -paratroopers. Range is way too short. Awesome in Alpha Centauri, suck here.

    -Gunships. As time goes on, I seem to be building less and less of these.

    -airships. not worth it.

    -mobile artillery. way too late

    well, I'm sure I'm forgetting other units, but that's enough to start a thread.

  • #2
    Re: What Units DON'T You Build?

    Originally posted by egavactip
    This is a spin-off of the worst non-UU unit thread. I am curious which units you personally tend to ignore, forget about, dislike, bypass, etc.

    Here are some of mine:

    -Archer. While archers can be very useful, I tend to try to go for axemen et al as soon as possible, which can be useful for both offense and defense, so researching archers is something I often don't want to take the time to do. If I can get them in a trade or free tech or something, great, but otherwise, I will typically grin and bear it with warriors until I get me some Axemen.
    These versatile guys are almost always my first defensive units.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -Horsies (chariots, horse archers, knights, cavalry). In some specific circumstances in particular games, I may build some, like some chariots to help deal with barbarians, or horse archers if I end up in an early crappy metal-poor area. However, the lack of defensive ability of these units means that their dual use ability is quite limited and usually there are non-horse units that are close enough to their offensive advantages that I don't feel the loss for them.
    Indispensible for chasing down barbs and AI units, as well as being great pillagers and worker thiefs.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -Elephants. All the disadvantages mentioned above, plus they are slow.
    '

    Seriously, how often do you even get ivory?

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -Catapults. I typically prefer to wait until I get trebuchets. And early on, some pumped up axemen or macemen don't really need catapults all that much, not against archers and axemen and the like. It's not until you get nasty bowmen or a protective opponent that you start feeling the need for some artillery.
    They decimate enemy stacks better than Trebuchets, and still do a decent job on city defenses.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -explorers. I don't understand why these are even in the game.
    Agreed.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -triremes. I built one last night to chase away a pesky pirate ship. That's about all I ever do with them.
    They protect your sea tiles for a long, long time.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -almost all other naval vessels. Let's see. What naval vessels do I actually use? A couple of caravels to circumnavigate or in some cases propagate a religion, etc. Galleys for early amphib stuff. Sometimes an ironclad to protect a rich coastline. Some frigates or later destroyers for convoy protection. Once in a while a battleship. If I need to do some heavy long distance amphib stuff, carriers are nice--esp. because you can also stick them in ports for "extra fighter airfields." And of course transports. The reset of the stuff I never use.
    What about free GG points and gold with Privateers?

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -machine guns. Again, i don't like any unit which is not dual use--offensive and defensive.
    My favorite coastal defensive units.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -anti-tank. Come too late.
    They kill Monty's stacks of tanks quite well.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -paratroopers. Range is way too short. Awesome in Alpha Centauri, suck here.
    Wonderful deep strike and diversionary units.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -Gunships. As time goes on, I seem to be building less and less of these.
    Love these with blitz.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -airships. not worth it.
    I usually only build a few for border defense.

    Originally posted by egavactip

    -mobile artillery. way too late
    I will upgrade to these, but usually don't need to build any.

    well, I'm sure I'm forgetting other units, but that's enough to start a thread. [/QUOTE]
    And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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    • #3
      Re: What Units DON'T You Build?

      Originally posted by egavactip
      This is a spin-off of the worst non-UU unit thread. I am curious which units you personally tend to ignore, forget about, dislike, bypass, etc.

      Here are some of mine:

      -Archer. While archers can be very useful, I tend to try to go for axemen et al as soon as possible, which can be useful for both offense and defense, so researching archers is something I often don't want to take the time to do. If I can get them in a trade or free tech or something, great, but otherwise, I will typically grin and bear it with warriors until I get me some Axemen.
      Raging barbs more or less forces me to make archers when playing SP. In PBEM's, I like to have some around to make stack defense interesting. City defense as a last resort.

      -Horsies (chariots, horse archers, knights, cavalry). In some specific circumstances in particular games, I may build some, like some chariots to help deal with barbarians, or horse archers if I end up in an early crappy metal-poor area. However, the lack of defensive ability of these units means that their dual use ability is quite limited and usually there are non-horse units that are close enough to their offensive advantages that I don't feel the loss for them.
      Lack of defense? So they don't get defensive bonuses, so what? They can add a key item to your defense. Invading enemy territory with your stack of axes, they're roughly 50-50 vs another axe. (give or take based on terrain) So you mix a couple ponies in with that stack. Now what does the enemy attack you with? Axes have bad odds on the horse archers, spears are suicide vs your axes, archer suicide vs your ponies. Mixed stacks, especially in PBEM. The AI, yeah, ok, not needed. And bring a couple chariots along to mutilate their axes as long as you're at it.

      Not to mention what evils you can do with the 2 moves.

      -Elephants. All the disadvantages mentioned above, plus they are slow.
      Alright, I don't build elephants much, especially if I have ponies.

      -Catapults. I typically prefer to wait until I get trebuchets. And early on, some pumped up axemen or macemen don't really need catapults all that much, not against archers and axemen and the like. It's not until you get nasty bowmen or a protective opponent that you start feeling the need for some artillery.
      Early on, cats are for city whacking.

      -explorers. I don't understand why these are even in the game.
      I may have possibly upgraded a scout at some point somewhere, but I don't recall...

      -triremes. I built one last night to chase away a pesky pirate ship. That's about all I ever do with them.
      Prebuild some for caravels to get that extra little push to circumnavigation. But, yeah.


      Muskets. I don't typically find much use for. Rifles or Grenadiers are so close.

      I rarely play into the modern age, so can't comment much on the rest.
      One who has a surplus of the unorthodox shall attain surpassing victories. - Sun Pin
      You're wierd. - Krill

      An UnOrthOdOx Hobby

      Comment


      • #4
        Stuff I don't like and hardly ever build...

        Triremes. Waste hammers just to swat a barbarian galley? I don't think so. I'll dangle my galley as bait - 68% chance of teh win when teh nasty attacks, even if I don't have a second galley handy. My normal SoP is to have two galleys around.

        Ironclads. Ummm? Str 12 Trireme? These things need to be adjusted somehow. Make 'em ~1875 2nd Gen equivalents, not Monitor/Virginia clones. As it is, most useless military unit in CIV, IMHO.

        Antitank. I do use these once in a while. But it will be like two AT in my whole empire. They have very, very limited usefulness. You can almost never attack with them, because you don't find tanks alone that often. AT doesn't even get to defend against tanks too often, because of that low base 14 Str.

        Paratroopers. I go months without even building 'em. About all they can do is...drop on a resource, or block a road? Big whoop. Combat in CIV is a game of stacks, not lines and ZoC. However, they ARE very well done, and quite useful, in the Road to War mod.

        And, last but certainly least, the Explorer. Why? Oh, I know people can do fun things with GrtGen Explorers, but again...why? I'd rather have a Med3 Cavalry than a Med3 Explorer. I'll be careful with him, Mom - I promise. Other than that...what's left for them to do? Most huts have barbs camped on them by this time - you need a spy to pop them. Missionaries can scout AI almost as well, then pay you back when they spread religion. I never build these. I do remember upgrading one scout a few months ago when I had a whole AI continent to explore. He had fun watching AI wars. Basically a waste of upkeep, though.

        Comment


        • #5
          Horsies - indispensable, if for nothing other than a mobile defense force. You can quickly reinforce sensitive of your empire quickly with a mobile defense force. Also great for striking enemy SODs in the field, especially when they chock full o cats or equicalents.

          Elephants - ivory is faew and far between, but the elephants long-long life duration is great - dont upgrade to currassier, which pretty much means good till cavalry

          Machine Guns - hard to argue with u on their general uselessness, but never thought about them as coastal defense units - good idea.

          Gunships - I dont normally build so many, ill just upgrade my 'at that point' massive horsie army to gunships.

          destroyers - uber-useful imo. great for clearing enemy fleets and for coastal bombardment.

          privateers - if you can get a few into the water before frigates are common then they rule the seas. earn some xp sinking caravels then mothball them till u can upgrade to destroyers - usually have good xp stored up. and the money earned pirating is great too.

          Comment


          • #6
            WHAT, no love for elephants.
            A GREAT unit with considerable shelf life.

            With shock, avail with just a barracks and stable it is the strongest unit of it's era. It will chew up crossbowmen, macemen, spearmen, archers, axemen, horsemen, and knights. A great addition to any stack and a handful of these with a stack a cats, and that city is gonna fall. Solo they're great for using your roads on defense to pick off those marauding horsemen and knights.

            I go out of my way if ivory is anywhere near me, because, lord knows, I'd rather have them then having my neighbor have them.

            Unless I'm protective I used to rarely research archery, but now with flanking attacks horsemen are more desirable.
            It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
            RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

            Comment


            • #7
              I get elephants early, although BtS has reduced their value... note that they were considered overpowered enough to justify requiring additional techs in BtS.

              I often skip horse archers if I'm in the clear at that stage, as I usually attack before they're available and then my next attack is after they're no longer useful; but some games HA's are key.

              I rarely build antitanks (gunships FTW!), and in some games build few longbows (focussing on crossbows). I don't think there are many units I never find a use for, though.
              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

              Comment


              • #8
                Explorers are almost useless IMO.

                I hardly ever build Ironclads, and rarely build currassier - I usually wait for cavalry/cossacks unless there is an urgent need.
                I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

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                • #9
                  Thanks, Nugog! There's another one I forgot...must be because I never build it.

                  Cuirassier.

                  I never build or upgrade to them in a normal speed game. Epic or marathon, I might, if I am in a fight AND if the other guy has cannon. Otherwise, I'm waiting for Cavalry.

                  My GG mounted units get to be Cuirassiers! Whee!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Shalkai
                    My GG mounted units get to be Cuirassiers! Whee!
                    I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Spain was completely ruined for me by making Conquistadors replace the Currasais. I think I've made them in ONE count em ONE game, when an ally traded the tech to me before I had rifles during a war (of survival I think). Spain used to have one of my favorite UUs now Izzy is broken...
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?...So with that said: if you can not read my post because of spelling, then who is really the stupid one?...

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                      • #12
                        I never build horse archers. I have made early rushes with chariots (can really catch someone off guard), but not HA. They cost too much and have only limited use. I usually do not even bother with horseback riding until Cavalry (or Construction if I have ivory).

                        Knights are for defensive purposes only, Macemen do a better job at attacking enemy cities.

                        I do build a lot of Cavalry.

                        If I get ivory, prepare for Elephant pain. Those are the most universal units of any age.

                        Airships are great, I used to underestimate them, but they are the earliest air strike unit available. Used properly, it can make huge difference both in offense and defense.

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                        • #13
                          I rarely get ivory in a timeframe that allows me to get Elephant pain rolling.

                          I haven't successfully built Khmer's unit, either, bad luck I suppose.

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                          • #14
                            Explorers make the best Medics,IMO, so it's worth to upgrade
                            a scout.

                            Best regards,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I do often build a few Explorer medics, should a city of mine have few instructors.

                              They kill Monty's stacks of tanks quite well.
                              ...You let Monty live long enough to have tanks? This isn't Alamein, ya know.
                              I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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