Oh, the frustration!

[Wiglaf]

It is retarded to say that +17 should never attack. Historically Hitler and Stalin were at least +10 and look what happened and OH MY GOD in terms of winning the game of course it can make sense for the AI to backstab. Anymore complaints about this and I'm going to throw my ****ing computer out of my window.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Wiglaf ... Anymore complaints about this and I'm going to throw my ****ing computer out of my window.

Look out below!

[wodan11]

Actually, isn't it a much better backstab when relations are highly positive? Isn't that the time when you would least suspect it, and thus the sneak attack would have greater chance of succeeding?

Wodan

[Kc7mxo]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun


That was most likely a driving factor. But then again, if the only other free nation in the world has been my friend and ally for the last thousand years, I don't expect to be needing an army... Heck, if I'd have permanent alliances on, we'd been one! ...I'm slowly learning my way out of common sense, and into Civ-sense.

I dunno, I think his response was very human. He's not playing an RPG, looks like he was going for a domination victory. Generally when an AI jumps you like that, its because your power rating is so much lower than his that he just can't resist. There are a few leaders who are programmed not to jump you at pleased though.

A good cheap way to forestall getting jumped, is to build city walls in all your cities, they provide a nice juicy bump to your power rating, and are especially cheap if you have stone and the right traits.

[Tattila the Hun]

Hum, how about castles? And does the boost in power end with, hum, gunpowder?

It is more of real-life vs Civ issue... I don't expect the US to suddenly invade Great Britain, even though they aren't even best friends atm.

Oh!!! One more thing. I've had civs, with whom I had Defensive Pacts with, attack me, while the pact was still in place. I do expect there to be some sure things, in game, and this, not being attacked by factual allies, being one. Atleast give the same 10 turn "Can't declare war!"-thing...

[Kc7mxo]

I used to feel the same way, I wanted them to act more like real world countries, but I realized that *I* don't act like a real world country so why should they?

Last game I blitzed my best buddy willy just because he had the holy city for my religion and a whole buncha juciy land on my border. . .

I bet he was thinking "WTF? Kc7mxo was at pleased! That backstabbing bastard!"

[Seedle]

I agree you should be safe from attack from those who are pleased or friendly with you, but as pointed out, this could lead to exploits since you could still attack those friendly AIs. Maybe they should add something like civ2's reputation. If you declare on an AI that you have bad relations with, no one cares. But if you declare on an AI that loves you, you suffer a "You are untrustworthy!" diplo hit with all other civs (except maybe other civs that are at war with your opponent.) The strength of the untrustworthy modifier would be fairly severe, and would be modified based on the both the AI personality and how friendly you were with the civ you declared on.

[joncnunn]

I hope not, in Civ II reputation was only something AIs cared about on the human. The AI could never lose reputation against other AIs.

Moreover, at a certain power level, the human would instantly flip in all AIs mind to worst possible reputation.

[Kc7mxo]

heh, that could be fun some of the time though. playing deity I was pretty much at war with everyone for the majority of the game. Crush someone down to a single city and they'd still be screaming their defiance!

Dealing with monty or tokugawa brings back good memories!

anyone think they ought to bring back fanatics too?

[Addled Platypus]

the best I saw was one AI had two vassals

but had not declared agaisnt me, luckily

but there is time left in the game


no vassa-line momemt for me if this changes

[Garth Vader]

The AI needs to be more ruthless, even to other AI's.

I had a recent game where Monty was between me and Bismark. Monty kept attacking Bismark, so I joined against Monty hoping to take some sweet territory. Bismark would agree to peace before taking any cities, so I ended up taking the whole thing. So instead of us being close in size I am now twice as big. There were about 3 wars before I could finish them off.

So then Catherine attacks Bismark from the other side. She has loads of stuff so I join in hoping to take something before Bismark goes down cause I don't want Catherine to get all of it. Catherine goes for peace, once again leaving me a weakened empire that I can swallow whole.

So now I am three times as big as Catherine and we are the only two left on the continent. Hmmm how is this going to end?

[rah]

Add an extra 4-6 AIs on any sized pagnea map (agressive AI of course) and you will see a more ruthless AI. Two types of war are the norm.
1. War to elimination. One AI will keep warring until the opponent has been eliminated. Or reduced to cities that can't be reached easily.
2. War till original SOD is eliminated. This will usually happen during the first city it goes to eliminate so it appears to be a short war but it's usually pretty bloody. They may take the first city but it falls back the next turn.

War's that stop when the aggressor still has overwhelming forces are quite rare and are usually the result of events or in the more normal case where an AI is bribed to join in and never really commits to it.

[wodan11]

I generally always add more AIs. It definitely makes for a more enjoyable game IMO.

Wodan