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Let's explain away the silliness of world wonders!

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  • Let's explain away the silliness of world wonders!

    The effects of wonders are determined by the needs of game balance. Their powers are not logical, and often its hard to take them seriously. If Trekkies and other crazy fan communities can have fun creating contrived and farfetched explanations of various improbably or impossible situations (beyond the usual “a wizard did it”) in the shows and books they adore, why can’t the civ community?


    Several wonder effects are quite logical, some are plausible. We are going to start with those and work our way to the silly ones. Criticize my explanations add your own, the best ones will be added to the list. If all goes well after a few pages we will have a full explanation of all the wonders.

    All the world wonders can be put into three broad categories.

    The first is clear effect wonders, building the wonder is gaining the benefit (like The Manhattan project, Space Elevator or perhaps the Great Wall).

    The second kind, are enablers, they are not built to gain the benefit, the benefit is spin off. A unintended result perhaps because of the needs of the vast project or the prestige it gains you. (The Statue of Zeus was not built to increase foreign war weariness, but if the other civ has a bigger and better temple to their god than yours you may feel a bit demoralized)

    The third are indicator wonders these do not provide the advantage themselves and do no produce it as spin off, per se, but are more of a sing, a symptom if you will of a certain kind of society. The Colossus is build because of the commercial success of maritime trade. Maritime trade does not happen because you have a big shiny statue in one of your cities. But you could argue that the “indicator” still has a psychological effect powerful enough to be considered an “enabler”, this introduces a little bit of ambiguity.

    Sometimes the divide is clear, other times it is not. Many wonders are both enablers and indicators. Truly clear-cut cases are few, since most wonders arguably have elements of at least two categories.

    I’m going to start out with a few modern and ancient examples, later I’ll edit in the best explanations and put them in their proper era, like renaissance.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

  • #2
    Modern wonders:

    The Pentagon- the sprawling military bureaucracy keeps thigh control over ground forces, preventing inexperienced commanders from making stupid mistakes, it also ensures the influence of the military in government decisions.

    The Statue of Liberty- the effects loosely simulates the effects of receiving educated and qualified immigrants who play a vital part in your country’s economy. It also represents the “melting pot” effect since those who do well in the new country, are quick to assimilate.

    The Three Gorges Dam- represents the massive source of electricity that only a vast megalomaniac public works project can confer

    The Manhattan project - some argue this should be a national wonder, and I agree. But even as a world wonder it can be logical, since the US in the real world did, “let the genie out of the bottle”, other powers had much less trouble dedicating resources when they saw the weapons effectives. Also some countries stole the US’s “atomic secrets” of the technicalities of building a nuclear weapon.

    The Space Elevator - completely logical in Civ4. Not quite so ever since the stupid designers of BtS decided that a space ship looks more cool if launched from the ground. In my opinion a space ship being built in orbit would have looked way more cool, it would have also allowed us to do some more radical visual customization, as opposed to the current streamlined limited ones. Not to mention it would have been more realistic. Also, it would have made this wonders effect spot on, like it was in Civ 4 and Civ2, where the ship was constructed in orbit.

    The Internet - hackers? I personally think a cultural or commercial effect would have been more reasonable for this wonder. But still technology, even classified can be obtained by breaking into government or commercial systems via the world wide web. But only with the diabolical aid of Al Gore.
    Last edited by Heraclitus; March 2, 2008, 12:52.
    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Comment


    • #3
      Ancient wonders:

      The Great Library - A pretty good effect, since it accurately represents what the Great Library of Alexandria was.

      The Great Wall - reasonably close, considering the scale of the game, it’s an uncanny resemblance. It providing great spy points is a representation of the control the emperor gains over the movement of his people.

      Stonehenge - it centering the world map, is a representation of the rudimentary astronomical knowledge required to build it. Its effect as a monument in every city are also reasonable, since the building of Stonehenge was an effort made by an entire region and was probably quite widely know. It is also possible to consider Stonehenge an indicator, of the widespread culture of building Neolithic monuments even before proper civilsation, by your people. Its place as the earliest wonder may support this interpretation.

      The Pyramids - Such otherwise worthless mausoleums to leaders, can only be constructed by a centralized powerful government. You can spin it as an enabler or an indicator. It also fits in nicely with the fact that Egyptians had Monarchy very early in the real world, much earlier than it is possible to gain the appropriate tech in civ. (Disclaimer: Without crazy tribal village luck. But the ancient Egyptians weren’t great explorers so )

      The Mausoleum- lots of pretty statues commissioned for a tomb. Attracts lots of great minds on commissions, these prolong the period people perceive as the civs golden age. A sipin off (enabler) wonder in my opinion, since the statues are commissioned regardless of whether there are native great artists or if they need to be imported.

      The Colossus- only fat rich people can build big expensive statues to thank the god of trade (Sid?) for their fortune. A clear “indicator” wonder in my opinion. You may argue it brings in tourism, but so do many other wonders in much larger numbers, so why don’t they produce profit? You may also speak of its psychological effect on the superstitious merchants or the prestige of it, that attracts them, but I think the GM points it provides more than cover this side effect.
      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

      Comment


      • #4
        I first didn't read the "away" word in the heading, so I didn't quite understand your thread :P

        But I like the wonders and think they add a nice flavour to the game. Without them, the variety in it would be lesser. There are certain wonders that I "have to" have and I look forward to the day I'll dare playing a "non-wonder" strategy. Would be hard with the Pentagon, though, as it's a huge part of my late era gameplay... The Dam, Sistine Chapel and the Pyramids are also some that are one my top list

        Comment


        • #5
          The Sistine Chapel The creation of this unequaled artistic achievement inspires all professionals (specialists) to look at their jobs as chances to improve the artistic nature and quality of their world, or at least their city. Even money-grubbing Merchants get into the act by hiring starving artists to create bar graphs and pie charts in oils and murals and such. Religious builings create culture as their administrative heads figure out that they too can conscript artists into forced labor just like the Pope did. (I mean "Resident of the Apostolic Palace" of course.)

          The Hagia Sophia This marvelous religious center helps promote the new doctrine that "Work is good for the Soul", prompting Workers to put in that little bit of extra effort, just in case this silly religious notion has some truth in it. By the advent of Steam Power, with many laborers' jobs being replaced by machines, the allure of the religious doctine falters. However, those who do have jobs find themselves working harder than ever in a sometimes suicidal attempt to keep up with the machines, as documented later in the case of John Henry, whose story is triggered by the discovery of Steel.
          If you aren't confused,
          You don't understand.

          Comment


          • #6
            The Internet As soon as two civilizations know a technology, there are enough people aware of it that a Wikipedia article is inevitable. Your scientists can learn enough from there to get them started, then quickly fill in the blanks. Any intellectual property protection is disregarded because, well, it's the internet, isn't it. Of course, for this explanation to really have legs, you'd have to occasionally also acquire obscure, useless technologies like "Klingon Battle Tactics," as a result of late-night link surfing.
            Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

            Comment


            • #7
              The Oracle, following construction of the Oracle (building) an Oracle (person) moves in and gives lots of obsurce advice, primariliy religious (+2 RPs), but all other areas are covered as well. One of your scientists visits it and while there gets an inspiration on who a previously unknown technology works. (the free tech)
              1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
              Templar Science Minister
              AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

              Comment


              • #8
                This thread is a good idea. When we are done, can we try something similar with the civics? In comparison to them, the wonder effects are almost common sense.

                The Parthenon: Vanity ... where would the world be without it? In the hope that a great achievement in their chosen profession will not only gain them the recognition of their peers, but might earn them a place in the Parthenon and the eternal fame that comes with it, ambitious specialists of all professions are inspired by this wonder to fulfill their potential. A few of them (well, 50 % more than if there was no Parthenon) even make it. Of course, there's nothing like the commission to create a new sculpture or painting for the Parthenon to promote an accomplished artist, so the wonder itself contributes to the creation of great art.

                EDIT: Or ... that would have been an explanation if we had been talking about the French Panthéon. Sorry.
                Last edited by Verrucosus; March 3, 2008, 21:24.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The Colossus - Because of such a giant, magnificent statue, the civ that owns it can essentially charge a little bit more for use of the water, and people will pay it.

                  This one is inspired by stuff I've learned on Good Eats:

                  The Hanging Gardens - The gardens are so inspiring that people travel to them from all over. So instead of spending their whole lives in the same comparitive filth, they spend a while at an area with much cleaner water, improving their general health.
                  It's a CB.
                  --
                  SteamID: rampant_scumbag

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Versailles It's not so much the building itself, but the Louis & Marie Memorial Museum it houses which reminds politicians in the region of the dangers presented by an ignored populace. That reminder leads to less corruption and better government overall, which translates into less maintenance for nearby cities.
                    Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Pyramids

                      Such great buildings of this size obviosly had to be made by someone who knows what he's talking about, if he says vote, you vote!


                      Rock and Roll ...etcetera

                      Anything good cannot be left for the person who created it to be in charge. The Government inveriably steals it and trades it away for more corn and uranium imports.


                      Cristo Redentor

                      When the lord watches over you, you dare not rebel, even over something as important as your personal freedom.
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh?...So with that said: if you can not read my post because of spelling, then who is really the stupid one?...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hauptman
                        Cristo Redentor

                        When the lord watches over you, you dare not rebel, even over something as important as your personal freedom.
                        I always pictured this one as more the populace being too distracted by the "WTF?" question while staring at Cristo to notice that their Free Religion/Emancipated/Free Market/Free Speech democracy with Universal Suffrage just became a Theocratic/Caste System/State Property police state with Vassalage, to boot. Hence, no revolt.
                        Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Following this mass arrival of new citizens to the Hanging Gardens site, they find it way too overcrowded and so they split out and go to every city in your empire, taking the secreet of cleaner water along with them.

                          This one is inspired by stuff I've learned on Good Eats:

                          The Hanging Gardens - The gardens are so inspiring that people travel to them from all over. So instead of spending their whole lives in the same comparitive filth, they spend a while at an area with much cleaner water, improving their general health. [/QUOTE]
                          1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                          Templar Science Minister
                          AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

                          Comment


                          • #14


                            Originally posted by Solomwi

                            I always pictured this one as more the populace being too distracted by the "WTF?" question while staring at Cristo to notice that their Free Religion/Emancipated/Free Market/Free Speech democracy with Universal Suffrage just became a Theocratic/Caste System/State Property police state with Vassalage, to boot. Hence, no revolt.
                            1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                            Templar Science Minister
                            AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Angor Wat Because of new doctrines issued from the Angor Wat, the sacred implement of your state religion changes from a thurible or whatever into a Hammer. Each Priest specialist is therefore issued one big shiny new Hammer as part of the job assignment. (Note, if the priest loses his or her faith and takes another job, the Hammer has to be returned.) (Second note, do not overly irritate a Priest Specialist with a big shiny new Hammer. Being slapped on the wrist with a ruler by a nun in Catholic school pales by comparison.)
                              If you aren't confused,
                              You don't understand.

                              Comment

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