Visible ocean trade routes...can you blow up the ocean?

[Lancer]

Every time somebody builds a boat, loads it up with rice or gold or coal and takes to the sea and heads for somewhere else they are trading and the route they take becomes a trade route, yes? Is the route visable or just the ship?

That route can't be destroyed, can it? If someone else builds a boat, puts a bunch of guys on it and sets sail to try to find the first guy, well the ocean is a big place. This guy can interdict a few short miles, as far as a guy at the highest point on the ship can see on any given day through the vast majority of history. If it's raining he can only interdict his posterior. If it's foggy he can't interdict his posterior unless he has two good hands. If by some miracle the first guy is caught by the second guy and a third guy then sets sail with his load of whatever he has a great chance of reaching his destination even if he follows the exact path as the first guy. Only at choak points does interdiction really occur with any form of confidence. Gibralter. Where else? The English Channel...even that is iffy as the Brits found out when they tried to stop the import of French wine during the time of Napoleon. Modern choak points? Think of the Americans trying to keep out Cuban cigars.

So, how to model trade at sea? Is it to be like cutting a railroad? I certainly hope not. Why have trade routes failed in the past?

[Cyrus The Mike]

ya know I think what should happen is dotted lines show where the trade routs are. and once you get privateers you can attack thoes trade routs to sever them you can also get gold (or not since your dealing with hired pirates) really thats all you can do. you can't bomb a trade rout, what good would that do? think about it. picture an open field, one worn out path in the middle, like a hiking trail, if you put a big rock in the middle of the road all the people who drive on that road will simply go around the rock.

So I think all you can do is 1. stop the routs at the sourse or 2. attack any trade vessels in the open sea.

[TimeTraveler]

If this was a game in which the length of the trade route mattered (specifically time and effort needed to carry the goods), then forcing trade to take a different route could increase the work needed to send such goods. Imagine a game where someone blockaded the strait or canal between two continents, forcing trade to stretch around (or across) one of them, instead of between them?

[Theben]

This is an old issue that Firaxis for some reason failed to incorporate in both Civ3 and 4 (this 1st came up in the Civ3 List of Ideas). I imagine they either felt it wasn't necessary for gameplay or that the AI would be crippled at the hands of a semi-competent human player (or too difficult to program). Considering how abundant economic warfare has been thruout the ages it's a shame.

Now it IS possible to 'blockade' in Civ4 BtS, but even that needs to be fixed. Right now it's too powerful.

[TriMiro]

In one of the two Call to Powers, the trade routs were visible dotted lines and could be blocked by pirates and enemy ships. You had to constantly watch them to keep them safe. I don't know how well that idea worked, since I barely played CtP.

[Common Sensei]

In the weeks leading up to the release of Beyond the Sword, a changelist was leaked that was quickly removed by the Civilization sites. One of the things it listed that didn't make it to the final game were trade routes were opened up with buoys created by work boats, which could be disrupted in times of war or raided by privateers.

If I was to guess, this was probably dismissed as contributing to micromanagement.

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by Common Sensei
In the weeks leading up to the release of Beyond the Sword, a changelist was leaked that was quickly removed by the Civilization sites. One of the things it listed that didn't make it to the final game were trade routes were opened up with buoys created by work boats, which could be disrupted in times of war or raided by privateers.

If I was to guess, this was probably dismissed as contributing to micromanagement.

And what part of micromanagement is bad? Lot's of us play that way, even (especially?) on marathon. Why would the company that enabled this consider it bad? Did I miss that memo?

[Lancer]

Just to go back to history again... When Napoleon sold Louisiana to the US I believe the money was used to buy wheat. His recruitment of so many men from the countryside had seriously hurt food production. So a large fleet set out from the US and was met and guided in safely by erm...iirc 11 French ships of the line. I believe this was during the time of full on blockade by the Brits who missed the whole thing completely.

Someone will no doubt correct me here, it's been ages since I read about this.

Blockades are like a strainer with a huge hole. You miss alot and catch some, and it's terribly expensive for both even though the blockading side can sell off the trade and ships it captures. The military is effected. The ships of the blockaded fleet lose their training in time as they languish in port. The ships of the blockading force can be worn down by constant use or devastated by storms though training is constant and crews very efficient. They are also often blown off station by storms. The blockaded ships could then come out in a storm, a very dangerous time to try to leave port in a sailing ship.

These things could all be modeled by random events.