Commerce buildings?

[Nohbody8]

I try to specialize my cities as much as possible. This is definitely the weakest aspect of my game. For now, my question is how do some of you judge a city worthy of all of the commerce buildings? I get that holy cities and most coastal cities warrant constructing the commerce buildings. What about the other cities in my empire? How much gold should the remaining cities be producing to consider investing in commerce buildings? And is it pretty much assumed that any commerce city is also going to get all of the research buildings as well?

[MoonWolf]

I basically build every building in every city. The exceptions are cities like those West Point and Great Generals where I pioritze units. Of course, I'd build first commercial buildings in commercial cities and science buildings in science cities. I'm not sure weither this is a good strategy or not, but as [i]building[i/] wealth doesn't get multiplied by the buildings (AFAIK), I'll do this.

[wodan11]

This totally depends on your strategy, the map, as well as the city.

If you're running a tight CE with very high science slider, then it's entirely possible your cities will not benefit much at all from Banks and Stock Markets.

Even if you're medium-high on the slider, those cities may well have extremely low hammer production, and for this reason, it may not be worth it to have those buildings.

Also, how long is the game going to last? If you're going for a space race victory, that's one thing. If you're going for medieval conquest, that's another.

Running a SE is even more customizable. You can have some cities running all merchants, and some running all scientists.

Wodan

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by wodan11
... Running a SE is even more customizable. You can have some cities running all merchants, and some running all scientists.

Wodan

I love having multiple SE cities. If possible, a scientist, engineer, and merchant city.

[snoopy369]

Commerce buildings that are worth it, iirc from an old Blake thread, in order of 'worth it', in the average game running around a 70% slider with some fluctuaition, and not taking into account health/happiness or other externalities:

#1: Bank
#2: Library
#3: Market
#4: Grocer
#5: University

Bank is the most useful because it's the only +50% building. University the least because it is so expensive for only +25%. You might normally run at a higher science which affects this order, but in a normal game played with optimal expansion strategies you spend enough time at 50% or less that this order is generally accurate. This does not apply to SE of course, as stated in SE you want more specialized cities.

In most cities that generate some commerce (several cottage tiles) you build a bank, a library, and sometimes a market and/or grocer; the other buildings are held for large commerce cities.

[LDiCesare]

Libraries are extremelly useful because they also grant culture. So, until you get theatre, they are a guaranteed build in every city (except maybe if you're creative, or incan with terrasses).
Also, observatories are cheaper than universities and thus preferable if you don't need culture or the associated Wonder.

[snoopy369]

Monuments are cheaper culture generators than libraries... 1/3 the price for the same effect (10 turns to a pop instead of 5 turns isn't worth the extra 60h, and culture beyond the first expansion is not worth much unless you're in a particular culture clash and/or need a resource outside your territory).

Certainly i'll build libraries for culture when i'd otherwise build a library, but if it's not a commerce producing city, it gets a monument.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Monuments are cheaper culture generators than libraries... 1/3 the price for the same effect (10 turns to a pop instead of 5 turns isn't worth the extra 60h, and culture beyond the first expansion is not worth much unless you're in a particular culture clash and/or need a resource outside your territory).

Certainly i'll build libraries for culture when i'd otherwise build a library, but if it's not a commerce producing city, it gets a monument.

Do you make Stonehenge a priority then?
What if your UU replaces the monument?

[LDiCesare]

I usually don't even research the tech needed for monuments so I never build them. Also, the extra turns make a difference to me.

[Ming]

Monuments are great because you can whip them for a single population. This is a much faster way to start generating culture than anything else (unless you are creative or have stonedenge )

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I usually don't even research the tech needed for monuments so I never build them. Also, the extra turns make a difference to me.

Monument in a size-1 city non-plains-hill working unlimited 2/1 forests: 14 turns build + 10 turns expand = 24 turns (can be poprushed at 11 turns, for 22 total turns to expand), or 1 forest chop + 10 turns for 14 turns for a single worker

Library in same city: 31 turns build + 5 turns expand = 36 turns (can be poprushed at 24 turns, for 30 total turns to expand), or 3 forest chops + 5 turns for 15 turns for a single worker

I'll build the monument, thanks...

Mysticism is pretty key for a lot of techs in the mid range of the tech tree, so it's probably a good idea to reasearch it at some point...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Supr49er


Do you make Stonehenge a priority then?
What if your UU replaces the monument?

Nah, stonehenge is built if it fits but usually I don't get it first (that interferes with normal development unless i'm IND or have stone usually). I think the monument UBs still have culture, but it's been a while for anything other than the totem pole.

[LDiCesare]

so it's probably a good idea to reasearch it at some point

No, I usually acquire it through a peace treaty, unless I'm trying to get a religion early or play Sumer.

[wodan11]

Libraries are useful because they let my SE run scientists.

Wodan