Iron Works vs. Heroic Epic

[Nohbody8]

At least I believe the national wonder that boosts military production by +100% is called Heroic Epic. If not, I apologize for not knowing the game as well as I should after so many years. Whatever it is called, how do you decide where to build your Iron Works or "Heroic Epic"? Does "Heroic Epic" simply go in your first production city and another city later on gets Iron Works or what?

[Jaybe]

HE will nominally end up being your military production city, of course. If you have enough cities, then IW may end up as another potential city of the same type, but also have flexibility for wonders, spaceship parts, etc.

Sometimes the two will end up being the same city, but usually not. Either one may end up with West Point in it, but I usually prefer my WP city to be a coastal one so it can also help with naval units.

All depends on the needs & circumstances of the individual game.

[Nugog]

Re: Iron Works vs. Heroic Epic

Originally posted by Nohbody8
how do you decide where to build your Iron Works or "Heroic Epic

In very simple terms:

1) Heroic Epic goes into whatever city I have decided is my "military building city" - this will usually already have West Point, a Military acadamy (from a Great General), and probably one or more Great Generals settled there as super specialists.

This city is not always the city with the highest raw hammercount - but does have a tendancy to be so.

2) IronWorks - usually either my highest raw hammercount city or my second highest. Somethimes the highest count one is already specialised in other ways - sometimes not.

Really it all just depends on how the game is going, and what the map is like.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Re: Re: Iron Works vs. Heroic Epic

Originally posted by Nugog


In very simple terms:

1) Heroic Epic goes into whatever city I have decided is my "military building city" - this will usually already have West Point, a Military acadamy (from a Great General), and probably one or more Great Generals settled there as super specialists.

This city is not always the city with the highest raw hammercount - but does have a tendancy to be so.

2) IronWorks - usually either my highest raw hammercount city or my second highest. Somethimes the highest count one is already specialised in other ways - sometimes not.

Really it all just depends on how the game is going, and what the map is like.

Wow. Why wait so long before building the Heroic Epic? Unless I suppose you might not qualify if you war later...

Anyhow.

The Heroic Epic tends to go into my highest hammer city early. I almost always have a unit with the xp to build it asap, so like to get it up and running early.

The Ironworks, now, tends to get a bit of thought. I stick it where it gets the best bonus. Sometimes that's the highest city, sometimes not when another city has iron and coal in the radius or something.

[Lancer]

I'm elite oriented. A high hammer inland city or ocean city with a min of ocean hexes and hopefully a fish or whatever gets the Epic. Throw in what generals I get to bolster then add in West Point when it becomes available.

This city will produce assault troops of great ability. Add in cat/trebs/cannon made elsewhere as fodder and then send in these boys to get the job done. Don't bother with a library or uni in that city, it just confuses them.

Don't fall into the trap of building def troops there.

[Quillan]

Normally I put Iron Works in my highest production city that's on a river. In the case of a large empire I try to put it far enough north that if the game runs long enough I'll eventually be able to build the Space Elevator there, but the choice of river city is planning for Three Gorges later.

I too usually pair Heroic Epic with West Point, but I build Heroic Epic first. Sometimes it's inland, sometimes it's on the coast (allowing elite naval vessels too), it all depends. It doesn't have to be my highest production city, but it does need good production. Doubling a 3 hammer city still results in slow unit production.

[snoopy369]

I prefer to put heroic epic in my #2 hammer city. My #1 hammer city builds wonders, and my #2 hammer city produces the fastest mil units - and basically does nothing but produce mil units (except if i'm over my mil unit limits and don't actually need any for a bit, I will produce forge, factory, etc.). With the 100% bonus, it can produce them very quickly (+50% additionally from the academy also), and I never fall behind in power, no matter how wonder focused I might become, if my #2 city is always producing huge quantities of mil units (usually 1 modern unit every 2 or at most 3 turns!).

It definitely gets paired with WP, not IW. The Iron Works goes to either my wonder producing city (if i'm doing a GP city elsewhere), or possibly to my #3 hammer city to become a multipurpose wonder/unit city if my #1 city gets the GP natoinal wonders (ie, national epic) if I for some reason don't have a GPP city.

[DirtyMartini]

Re: Re: Re: Iron Works vs. Heroic Epic

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
another city has iron and coal in the radius or something.

AFAIK it makes no difference if there is iron or coal in the city's big fat cross. City just needs access to those resources.

[wodan11]

Yeah having to have the resource in the radius is old school civ.

Wodan

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by wodan11
Yeah having to have the resource in the radius is old school civ.

Wodan

Old habits can be hard to break. I still fall into this trap noe and then.

[Theben]

Originally posted by wodan11
Yeah having to have the resource in the radius is old school civ.

Wodan

?? When did that change?

How would you people pair the following: Heroic Epic, Iron Works, Red Cross, West Point?

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Theben


?? When did that change?

How would you people pair the following: Heroic Epic, Iron Works, Red Cross, West Point?

Usually, HE and WP in primary military city.
RC with Moai Statues in naval military city
IW in best production city- wonders.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Theben
?? When did that change?

I think it was Civ3 that Ironworks required coal and iron in that city's radius.

Civ4 doesn't even require that the city have access at all, but if Ironworks has access to the resources, it gives extra bonuses. Access = via the trade network, can be in any of your other cities, or could even be traded from another civ.

How would you people pair the following: Heroic Epic, Iron Works, Red Cross, West Point?

Mix and match. All have benefits. Some you get early, so doing a combo early gives it to you longer during the game. Or, do it late for a potentially more powerful combo, e.g., Red Cross plus West Point.

Iron Works is notable because it is also useful for non-unit strategies. Cranking out wonders, etc.

Wodan

[DirtyMartini]

Usually -- HE + WP

Red Cross, if it gets built at all, goes in a secondary production city that builds units. As suggested, RC + Moai makes sense, but can't say I myself do that. Moai usually gets paired with something else, just because it occurs so early.

Iron Works often ends up in a former foreign capital and for logistical reasons often ends up paired with Forbidden Palace.

[joncnunn]

I generally end up building Heroic Epic in an above average hammer city, but one not in contention for Iron Works, Oxford, Wall Street, or Moi Statues.
I'll usually pair it with West Point.

I almost always build IW in one of my best two hammer cities. (The best unless it got displaced by the 2 National Wonder Limit)