Phoney war

[Brommer]

Hi Apolyton people,

I just had a strang incident which finally made me register after years of lurking. The situation is the following:

I play as Hannibal, Monarch difficulty on a standard size global highlands map. I started isolated on my own medium sized continent. To the west is Charlemagne on his own very large continent. He is second in score, I am first. His military is about twice as strong as mine (I am second), according to the demographics. He just declared war on me. The strange thing is, there is not a single unit of his in my borders, or even near them. My zeppelins spot his coastal cities to be weakly defended (some riflemen and machineguns) and without a single ship inside.

So my question is, has anyone else here been declared war like this? What am I going to expect? Should I expect some giant invasion fleet? What could be the reason for the AI to simply declare war without doing anything? They want me to suffer from war weariness, knowing I don't have many happy resources? Maybe this is some kind of trap? Usually, when such a strong AI declares war they do it by immediately dropping a giant stack of units next to one of my cities.

Maybe some of you more experienced warmongers can help me how to react to such a surprising declaration of war? I'd like to use this opportunity to weaken him, but my military is weak as I just started bulding infantry to replace my aging musketeers and riflemen.

[jbp26]

it could be a lot of things. sometimes the AI will declare war and nothing at all happens. other times its for something trivial, like to let a trireme pillage some resources or to attack a privateer. its possible someone else bribed him into declaring on you. on the other hand he might have a fleet of death coming, though typically they land this immedietly after declaring war. so if your scouts havent found anything maybe youre ok.

[Supr49er]

Welcome Brommer.

Expect an invasion. Perhaps he was bribed by one of your other rivals, but if he has a superior military, you can expect to be attacked.

[Brommer]

Bribing is possible, since I'm not the most popular guy around. I checked whether he had attacked Louis, my vassal, but that's not the case. Still it's a bit strange. Even his airships did not attack my destroyers I had deployed near his coast. Well, I think I'll just play on and see what is going to happen.

Edit: Thanks for the welcome!

[The Priest]

There are in effect two different types of declarations of war. I remember reading an article about the mechanics.

The key point is that each turn when each AI civ decides whether it wants to go to war with you. BUT if it decides it does, it doesn't immediately declare war. It has decided to go to war, but first puts its troops into the right position, builds new units etc. and then some 10-20 turns later declares war. This is why often when they declare war, they immediately invade with well positioned stacks etc. Call this Planned War

On the other hand, there can always be Opportunistic War. There are all sorts of reasons why an AI will declare war instantly. Being bribed is an obvious one, but sometimes it seems as if they are just opportunistic - they see an opening, think you are weak because of some other events etc. If the war is opportunistic, for whatever reason, they will not have prepared and so you will not get any serious invasion at all to begin with. The AI will then assess what its best strategy is which might be ignore the war, but will often be prepare its forces to attack. Thus they come in strength about 10 turns later.

They both look like a declaration of war, and the moment it comes you might not know which it is, but they are very different and need different responses.

[Unimatrix11]

Originally posted by jbp26
...sometimes the AI will declare war (...) to attack a privateer. ..i

There is really no reason for that, now is there ?

[jbp26]

i meant if its in your cultural borders. my bad.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by jbp26
i meant if its in your cultural borders. my bad.

They can still kill your privateers, even in your ports, and even if you stack them with Frigates, as long as they have an open borders agreement.

[ybrevo]

Funny - I had an experience like that with the game I am playing at the moment: Kublai Khan declared war on me, and for the next 40-50 turns I didn´t see a soldier or a ship with his name (or flag) on it. Then I just suggested to stop the non-war which he accepted. If that was an OPPORTUNISTIC WAR, it was certainly one of the most peaceful I have ever seen.

But I guess Kublai is full of surprises. After razing one of Catherines cities and pillaging everything - even the roads - around it, the Mongols came running with a settler to put up a new city. There is only dessert, mountains and a few bare water tiles around it. But okay - maybe he is planning a new non-war from the sand dunes?

And by the way: WELCOME to you Brommer - I am also a rookie here and have had a great time reading all the inspiring threads.

Ybrevo

[Brommer]

I once had a situation, where almost everyone declared war on me simultaneously. But I figured out someone on the Apostolic Palace got bored and voted for it. That time I never saw an invasion fleet and simply got peace agreements with every one a few turns later, until the same started again...

But in this game, I own the apostolic palace. I played on a bit and saw Charlemagne's invasion fleet coming from the back part of his empire. It headed for the most obvious landing point near my western city, where my fleet was already waiting. Only one transport got through. I had expected more from the number one in military. Now I'm thinking of invading myself, as I have tanks, just invented flight, and his city defenders are only a few infantry, the rest being outdated units (but lots of them). But even after so much playing CIV I'm too stupid for offensive warfare.

This opportunistic war The Priest mentioned, sounds plausible. I just wonder why it never happened to me before. Usually it's some huge stack/invasion fleet coming from nowhere without a declaration of war several turns in advance.

Originally posted by ybrevo
And by the way: WELCOME to you Brommer - I am also a rookie here and have had a great time reading all the inspiring threads.
Ybrevo

Thanks! I've been reading this forum for a long time now and the ideas some people here come up with are very creative.

[Tattila the Hun]

Here's a question, though. When an AI starts to plan for a war, what are the ways to persuade him not to? If in that period of preparation I get a great merchant and upgrade my units to par with him, will he still go for it?

I also wonder, if the AI takes his fleet sizes into account, when planning a war against overseas opponent. Sure he has zounds of tanks and hordes of infantry, and I have, well, less. But does he realize, that he only has enough transport capacity to haul a few percents of them overseas?

[Hauptman]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Here's a question, though. When an AI starts to plan for a war, what are the ways to persuade him not to? If in that period of preparation I get a great merchant and upgrade my units to par with him, will he still go for it?

I also wonder, if the AI takes his fleet sizes into account, when planning a war against overseas opponent. Sure he has zounds of tanks and hordes of infantry, and I have, well, less. But does he realize, that he only has enough transport capacity to haul a few percents of them overseas?

Generally speaking once in motion they dont deviate, I have experienced this with reloads (because I wasnt ready!).

Just last night. I was tooling along when Monty declares war. I probably didnt need to, but I reloaded 3 turns back and upgraded the huge stack I had in that city. My powergraph then went above his, but he still declared and lost every unit he had.

I have had many experiences with this, the only way out of it, would be a peace treaty from giving in to his demands or making one of your own.

[joncnunn]

This is a major cheat, but if they are on the same landmass, by going into the World Builder and sorrounding your borders with mountain peaks they would change their minds pre BTS. In BTS they might merely decide to recall the land forces and massively build naval units.

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
Here's a question, though. When an AI starts to plan for a war, what are the ways to persuade him not to?

[ybrevo]

Originally posted by joncnunn
This is a major cheat, but if they are on the same landmass, by going into the World Builder and sorrounding your borders with mountain peaks they would change their minds pre BTS. In BTS they might merely decide to recall the land forces and massively build naval units.

So in other words you build The Great Wall by popping up a nice Himalaya? It would probably create some useful tsunamis as well.('').

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by joncnunn
This is a major cheat, but if they are on the same landmass, by going into the World Builder and sorrounding your borders with mountain peaks they would change their minds pre BTS. In BTS they might merely decide to recall the land forces and massively build naval units.

So, nothing short of act of god or horrible tectonic movements?

It is annoying, as I'm often able to sign a Defencive pact with them. That kinda makes me think, that they won't come after me... Especially if the are Friendly. Yet they do. There isn't even any sort of "can't declare war after cancelling Defencive pact", which would be nice...

I do play with "Agressive AI" enabled, but there really should be few certainties, even then. I can not trust anyone, not even my grandest ally.