A few vexing questions

[Hydro]

A few vexing questions.

Demand Civic or religion changes - I keep having the AI call to demand that I convert to this religion or that civic. But, when I go to try to demand or bribe the AI to do the same the option either seems not to exist or is red – indicating it isn’t an option. In particular, I’m interested in getting the AI to adopt my particular state religion to reduce tensions and get a bit of coin. In most cases I see a huge religion block forming with me on the outside. What gives? Is there a required tech to demand a change? What type of pre-conditions are needed?

Spreading religion – it seems that the AI is better on spreading their religions than I am. I assume that the best means is a missionary via open boarders. Am I correct in assuming that there needs to be direct road or river connecting the two civs so that the religion can make its way there? What is the most effective way to help this along naturally? I’d rather not spend the resources building tons of missionaries.

Founding multiple religions – I generally try to get an early religion, and if I’m racing through the tech tree I can frequently found a few more of the later religions, too. Is it worth it to then send a Great Prophet to establish each of the great religious building in the religions’ founding city? Granted, it costs a Great Prophet – but the buildings do give long standing benefits, and I think $$ from each city that has that religion. Is this worth it, or am I wasting my Great Prophet?

Vassal state – I was surprised when I had Gandhi call up and say he wanted to be my vassal? What? Hmmm, sure! Then I realized I just declared war on his rival, who was one of my best trading partners. Oops. Since then I’ve read what vassal means – more maintenance for me and I have some control over the vassal’s foreign policy, but I’m obliged to declare war if someone attacks them. In one recent game I had two of my (smallish) neighbors ask to be my vassal (neither was at war with anyone). Is it worth it to form a power block? Does the AI even pay attention to such things – aggregate power? Or do they just see a weakling nearby and declare war? Or is it a giant scheme to drag me into a war that is not of my choosing? I swear I saw Washington smirk when I agreed to have him be my vassal…

Permanent alliance – similar to the above, is it worth it? I’ve never seen this option in the diplomacy screen, but I’ll keep looking.

Thx,
Hydro

[#07]

To answer a few...

- For the AI to adopt your religion, they must have it in at least one city. From my experience if they have more of another religion they will want to keep it, unless you are vastly more powerful or have vassalised them.

- Build the holy temple of your religion and it will increase the chances of it spreading natuarally and you will also recieve the economic benefit. It is still worthwhile building missionaries though for the extra coin.

- I think vassals are well worth it. You might get a diplo penalty but the rewards are huge. You can borrow their resources, use them in wars. Vassals are great, especially when you grant a colony independance. I'll give them the relevant military technology so they can come warring with me and hold their own.

- I think you need Fascism to have a permanent alliance.

Hope that helps.

[Theben]

Re: A few vexing questions

Originally posted by Hydro
A few vexing questions.

Demand Civic or religion changes - I keep having the AI call to demand that I convert to this religion or that civic. But, when I go to try to demand or bribe the AI to do the same the option either seems not to exist or is red – indicating it isn’t an option. In particular, I’m interested in getting the AI to adopt my particular state religion to reduce tensions and get a bit of coin. In most cases I see a huge religion block forming with me on the outside. What gives? Is there a required tech to demand a change? What type of pre-conditions are needed?

1st he needs to like you, usually... and 2nd he needs to have more of your religion in his cities than in others. Lastly, if he's founded a religion it is unlikely that he will ever switch to another religion, unless vassalized or has MANY more cities with a different religion.

Spreading religion – it seems that the AI is better on spreading their religions than I am. I assume that the best means is a missionary via open boarders. Am I correct in assuming that there needs to be direct road or river connecting the two civs so that the religion can make its way there? What is the most effective way to help this along naturally? I’d rather not spend the resources building tons of missionaries.

If you don't want to use a missionary, then you need both open borders and a road or trade route connection. This need not be with you- if another civ has your relg and meets the same reqs it can spread that way. Having the holy shrine helps immensely.
Be forewarned that if they are in Theocracy you cannot spread your relg via missionaries.

Founding multiple religions – I generally try to get an early religion, and if I’m racing through the tech tree I can frequently found a few more of the later religions, too. Is it worth it to then send a Great Prophet to establish each of the great religious building in the religions’ founding city? Granted, it costs a Great Prophet – but the buildings do give long standing benefits, and I think $$ from each city that has that religion. Is this worth it, or am I wasting my Great Prophet?

I do, but generally it isn't, because later religions don't spread as far and wide as early ones do. So early relgs have good $$ outputs w/ shrines, while later ones only do if you use missionaries to spread them. I try to only spread one relg outside my borders (the one all my neighbors have, for diplomacy ++) and the others only inside my lands.

[JeebusGreen]

Re: A few vexing questions

Originally posted by Hydro
Demand Civic or religion changes - I keep having the AI call to demand that I convert to this religion or that civic. But, when I go to try to demand or bribe the AI to do the same the option either seems not to exist or is red – indicating it isn’t an option. In particular, I’m interested in getting the AI to adopt my particular state religion to reduce tensions and get a bit of coin. In most cases I see a huge religion block forming with me on the outside. What gives? Is there a required tech to demand a change? What type of pre-conditions are needed?

If it's not there as an option, I believe it means that the religion is not in ANY of their cities and thus cannot, or have Free Religion as a civic.

If it's red, mouse over it and you'll get a short reason, something like,
'Not enough of our people follow that faith', which means you need to spread more of it in their cities.
There's also the 'We don't like you enough' which is a pain when you're trying to get them to change so that they like you more

Same advice goes for any of the diplomacy screen business - hover over if it's red and it'll tell you why.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Hydro
What type of pre-conditions are needed?

As mentioned, just get your religion established in more of the other civ's cities than any other. Provided the other civ hasn't founded it's own. It will be pretty much a waste of time trying in that case.

I’d rather not spend the resources building tons of missionaries.

If you want your religion to spread, you really don't have much choice. If a city already has a religion in it, new ones can't spread there spontaneously, you have to send in a missionary. And they can spread very quickly on their own, so in a short time there won't be any cities left that don't have one. Which leaves missionaries the only way you're going to spread yours.

Is this worth it, or am I wasting my Great Prophet?

If you're actively spreading your religions with missionaries then most definitely it's worth it. The cash you get from the shrines can really add up after awhile. But if you're not going to make the effort to spread it around, don't even bother trying to get any other religions after the first. It's not going to do you any good.

I quite often end up with two religions, Buddhism and Confucianism, and I assign one city to do nothing but produce missionaries for both, along with some buildings here and there. And after awhile both holy cities can be pulling in 40 gold a turn each just from the shrines. Sometimes I even get lucky and have both religions get founded in the same city I end up with a real cash cow.

Is it worth it to form a power block? Does the AI even pay attention to such things – aggregate power?

Yes, your vassal is included in your overall power rating, so you'll appear more powerful to the other civs by having them. Also 50% of the territory and population of your vassals are added to your overall score in the event of a domination victory. And once they're your vassal, other civs cannot declare war on them. They have to go through you instead as you are now their spokesperson. The only thing you might get from some civs is a diplomatic hit since they may not like your vassal.