What happened to the Marsh Tile Type from Civ III?

[stevel]

Just curious as to why BTS did not introduce this tile type (I think it was introduced to CIV III in Conquests).

Is it because no one likes low production tiles?

I think it could have also lead to some interesting strategic decisions
- industrial level worker improvement of draining
- somehow implementing the option of opening up the ****s and reflooding, creating an area of strong defence

[MinorAnnoyance]

Desserts are zero production tiles so that can't be the reason.
I've though about this to when I created a map based on the map from another game and had to make a swamp a jungle. It probably just didn't fit into the new system

[Supr49er]

Maybe they became flood plains?

[snoopy369]

Largely because the idea of Civ4 was to simplify Civ by taking out unnecessary things... Marsh isn't really significantly different in gameplay to jungle, so why have it.

[stevel]

True, but wetlands cover 6% of the world's landmass, and probably originally covered over 10%. Thats a pretty significant distinct geographical feature to ignore.

http://atlas.aaas.org/index.php?part=2&sec=eco&sub=wetlands

[Starfarer]

Originally posted by stevel
True, but wetlands cover 6% of the world's landmass, and probably originally covered over 10%. Thats a pretty significant distinct geographical feature to ignore.

http://atlas.aaas.org/index.php?part...o&sub=wetlands

But it's also an unnecessary addition to the game, which I think is the point.

[snoopy369]

I swear I need to put this in my sig ...

Gameplay trumps reality. Civ4 is a good, fun game to play, not an accurate historical simulator. So ... no marsh, as it wouldn't add to the gameplay.

[Unimatrix11]

Talking about your sig, snoopy: Last time i clicked "here" (which isnt the designy way of linking - that would be "setup guide to host a PTBS" as link, as you probably know) on it, my browser crashed. I dont remember wether it was the IE or Firefox, but ever since, i didnt dare to click it again. IIRC, a bunch of windows popped up. I just thought, maybe you wanna check that link again...
(sorry folks, too lazy to PM)

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
Talking about your sig, snoopy: Last time i clicked "here" (which isnt the designy way of linking - that would be "setup guide to host a PTBS" as link, as you probably know) on it, my browser crashed. I dont remember wether it was the IE or Firefox, but ever since, i didnt dare to click it again. IIRC, a bunch of windows popped up. I just thought, maybe you wanna check that link again...
(sorry folks, too lazy to PM)

Or just eager to get +1?

[johnmcd]

I understand the desire in Civ 4 to simplify, but I'm not convinced terrain is the place to do it.

Everyone knows what hill and fen are, there is little chance of confusion there. The complexity that needs avoided is in the arcane strength, commerce and wonder arena. The mechanics that lie outside everyday life.

If ever there was a place in a Civ game to put the complexity it is in the tiles and the landscape. Nobody has any doubt about what a marsh is.

[Starfarer]

Originally posted by johnmcd
I understand the desire in Civ 4 to simplify, but I'm not convinced terrain is the place to do it.

Everyone knows what hill and fen are, there is little chance of confusion there. The complexity that needs avoided is in the arcane strength, commerce and wonder arena. The mechanics that lie outside everyday life.

If ever there was a place in a Civ game to put the complexity it is in the tiles and the landscape. Nobody has any doubt about what a marsh is.

You meant o tell me there are Civ players who had trouble intuiting that Strength refers to how strong the unit is and Commerce refers to money?

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Starfarer



You meant o tell me there are Civ players who had trouble intuiting that Strength refers to how strong the unit is and Commerce refers to money?

Commerce doesn't refer to money at all! It refers to money and science and espionage and culture, it and its by products come from dozens of different sources, not all transparent and not at all intuitive. This very abstraction of commerce and all its bedfellows in the game are where the complexity arises.

[joncnunn]

Old Marsh basically was Jungle that couldn't be instantly removed by founding city but took only 2/3rds the amount of time to clear via worker.

Now since in Civ IV, Jungle is a 2 MP tile instead of a 3 one; Marsh would be even more similar if added, so it was felt to be adequately represented by jungle in a normal game.