Should I whip in Birka or Roskilde?

[guermantes]

I have been trying to wrap my head around whipping and city re-growth for a few hours now but all variables just blend together. I read a city growth mechanics guide over at that other site but I can't find the whipping guide. I know I've seen it but I didn't bookmark it.

I usually only whip in order to get units fast when at war so I don't care if my empire suffers a bit in those circumstances.

In my current game, however, I am top dog and I don't need to whip in order to get a building or unit fast. I just finished a war and when the conquered lands start to develop I am set to be even stronger than I am now.

I am just thinking that it could be beneficial for me to whip anyway in the 2 cities below. But as I said above, I can't do all the math to decide.

So I wonder if someone who knows whipping in their sleep could reach a quick decision if it would be beneficial in any of the two cities below. (The reason I picked those two cities is that they hardly have any hammers but I want to get a few buildings to start processing all the commerce they generate.)

So if anyone wants to help me out I'd be very greatful, and perhaps it would be a good illustration for other people trying to wrap their heads around the whipping concept as well.

Thanks!

I think all the data needed are in the screens below.

Birka


Roskilde

[wodan11]

Well you're running too high on the slider and you're going to have to drop back to 70% or 80% next turn.

Anyway, if you whip in Roskilde, you'll probably lose 2 guys, which means 6 lost gross commerce. Your net beakers/gold is about 55, with a 100% slider boost of 25% by the library. Your total gross is about 42. The 6 lost gros will translate to about a loss of 7.5 net.

Meanwhile you're making a market, which will add happiness you don't need and also 25% to gold, which won't impact until after you drop the slider (which you'll be doing). Anyway it will preserve your overall 125% bonus to the gross commerce, as you'll get it to both your beaker and gold translation.

Anyway what's all this mean? If you whip, you will actually lose commerce. However, you're going to have to drop the slider, and if you don't whip the market, you will lose 25% of 20% of 55 which is 2.75 net. Not as much as the 7.5 you lose by whipping.

If it was me, I would NOT whip.

Birka is a little different. You've maxed out your tasty coast tiles, and you're basically looking at working either ocean or forest tiles. What I would suggest here is YES whip, but ONLY whip when you are using up the ocean/forest. To make sure, click the Emphasize Commerce button.

As it stands right now, you'll probably use 2 citizens to whip the partially-completed Observatory. You're about to grow a new one. So, whipping now is a good idea. Then, you'll have to wait probably 20-25 turns before you will have the right conditions to whip again.

Hope this helps. YMMV.

Wodan

[DirtyMartini]

I'm no expert, and I don't really do the calculations before I decide, but I'd probably whip 'em both.

The first city is working a cruddy forest tile and it is about to grow. I'd probably whip it now and take the loss of three citizens -- you'll get one back immediately anyway. You could let it grown, and wait until you'd only lose two citizens, to maximize the number of turns you're working all of the coast, but that's more micro than I'm into. The only downside to whipping this city is that it has only a 3 food surplus, so it's not going to grow very fast. I'd still whip it often enough to keep it from using the forest, at least until lumber mills.

The second city I would whip early and often. It has no hammers to speak of and never will, but it has an 11 food surplus. The whipped pop is going to grow back faster than the whipping unhappiness decays. I'd whip that market, whip a bank, whip, whip, whip. Once you've got all the multiplier buildings -- then just leave it alone and let it work all that coast. You did already put a forge there (presumably whipped) -- I probably woudn't have bothered. Would have gone, granary, lighthouse, harbor --> financial buildings. You could even have subspecialized it -- all science buildings or all gold buildings then run specialists once you ran out of stuff to whip.

[snoopy369]

Um, I'd whip in roskilde, and maybe in birka. As you see from the screenshot he'll lose 3 people in both cities. Roskilde you'll get the pop back in an extremely short amount of time, and the market is a very useful improvement, particularly if you are going to have to cut your science way back as you obviously will. Conversely, you have only 2 hammers in that city, and the hammer:food relation is food-heavy. You get the pop back quickly, you'll still in a very short amount of time have max pop, and you get the market built, which is useful for your future expansion. Think of it this way; you're going to want the market eventually, so you'd rahter have it sooner rather than later; and if you rush it, you have the opportunity to build other things during those 50 turns.

Birka won't regrow the pop as quickly, and the observatory is not as useful at all unfortunately. I'm not sure I'd whip that, because it's not that useful - but that's because I'd probably not BUILD it. Your raw commerce is 38, and at a normal 70% sci (at your losses you may have to go to that or below, not just 80%)that's 27 science. This is going to give you 5.75 more science per turn... probably not worth it for the 150 you pay for it iirc. If there's nothing else valuable to build (including military units), then I suppose you go ahead. The Birka food issue is that it only has one food resource, so it will take a while to regrow; but then again, for the time until you regrow you're losing 6T and 1H, which isn't that much more than you're gaining by rushing it, and when you consider that it regrows at 20-22/3=7 turn (roughly) intervals, it's probably worth it.

[guermantes]

Thanks a lot for your answers! I followed the suggestions to whip in Roskilde and it seems to be working fine. I am more restrictive in Birka though.