ALL of my saves games vanished

[Aro]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11

EDIT: The ´right´way is the way I, or better: the user, wants it to be.

Again, agreed.

In fact, many softwares give this option to the user. "Where do you want to store the files?"

Simple like that.

[Quillan]

Gaming has become more mainstream. As it has, the designers are trying to make things easier, and sticking the saves/configuration files in the Documents and Settings folder makes that easier if multiple people play games on the computer. So many parents now grew up with games that you now have 2 and occasionally 3 generations of family members in the same house who play games. I prefer them all in the installation directory, but I understand why they do it this way.

[Kuciwalker]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Unimatrix11
Well, about putting files in ´my documents´ being the ´right´ way: I will attach a little jpeg, showing a comparison of the games installed on my comp, and the folder in my ´my documents´ (=´eigene dateien´ in german). It shows, that out of 11 games installed, only 5 do that. It only adds to the confusion, that firaxis seems to put all their games into a ´my games´ subfolder (do they think everyone is only running their games ? - mine does contain BTS and Pirates! - thus 5 total in ´my documents´), while the others are in seperate folders directly under ´my documents´. Obviously there is not quite a consensus what ´the right way to do it´ would be...[/q]

Wrong. This is because Microsoft only [relatively] recently started encouraging this behavior (which has been standard for a long time in other operating systems) and game devs have started respecting proper security practices.

EDIT: The ´right´way is the way I,or better: the user, wants it to be.

No, the right way is the one that follows proper security practices. Under Vista, these games would have to be run as Administrator to place their save files there. [Proof that Vista's security model has finally caught up to other OS's.]

[Unimatrix11]

Who is "they" and what is "easier" ?
Paradox is not part of "they" obviously - and "easier" means that the standard user will have left a bunch of unused folder in her/his ´my documents´ folder once after the games (or any other software) get de-installed and wont know if they may be deleted or not (as with the SH4-example above - i dunno if civ4 keeps its folder there after de-install) and that the, well lets say ´old-school-user´ will be confused as were to look for his/her files (again SH4 example).

IMO, people who cant browse through their files and dont know where their destination folders (that oughta contain all the files belonging to the game) is - people who cant even use the windows explorer at this minimum level, should get a video-game-console, instead. I dont need mum to take my underwear for the next morning out of the cupboard for me. I want my socks in my cupboard, where i can find them !

Actually firaxis is doing it the ´mild´ way, by using a "my games"-subfolder - if only all the others, who do create folders other than in the destination one, did that, it would be a whole lot less against my taste already. But as there is no common pattern (and hell no ´requirement´ as snoopy put it, or ´right way´ according to kuci) it just evolves into an uncontrollable mess. I dont only have one mum fiddling with my underwear, but half as many as i have games and each one has its own idea, where things belong - get my gripe ?

[Unimatrix11]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
Well, about putting files in ´my documents´ being the ´right´ way: I will attach a little jpeg, showing a comparison of the games installed on my comp, and the folder in my ´my documents´ (=´eigene dateien´ in german). It shows, that out of 11 games installed, only 5 do that. It only adds to the confusion, that firaxis seems to put all their games into a ´my games´ subfolder (do they think everyone is only running their games ? - mine does contain BTS and Pirates! - thus 5 total in ´my documents´), while the others are in seperate folders directly under ´my documents´. Obviously there is not quite a consensus what ´the right way to do it´ would be...[/q]

Wrong. This is because Microsoft only [relatively] recently started encouraging this behavior (which has been standard for a long time in other operating systems) and game devs have started respecting proper security practices.

EDIT: The ´right´way is the way I,or better: the user, wants it to be.

No, the right way is the one that follows proper security practices. Under Vista, these games would have to be run as Administrator to place their save files there. [Proof that Vista's security model has finally caught up to other OS's.]

Hmmm - yeah the kind of security that made the thread-starter loose all his saves...

EDIT: What was the quote again, about "securtiy" and "freedom"... ?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
Who is "they" and what is "easier" ?
Paradox is not part of "they" obviously - and "easier" means that the standard user will have left a bunch of unused folder in her/his ´my documents´ folder once after the games (or any other software) get de-installed and wont know if they may be deleted or not (as with the SH4-example above - i dunno if civ4 keeps its folder there after de-install) and that the, well lets say ´old-school-user´ will be confused as were to look for his/her files (again SH4 example).

IMO, people who cant browse through their files and dont know where their destination folders (that oughta contain all the files belonging to the game) is - people who cant even use the windows explorer at this minimum level, should get a video-game-console, instead. I dont need mum to take my underwear for the next morning out of the cupboard for me. I want my socks in my cupboard, where i can find them !

Actually firaxis is doing it the ´mild´ way, by using a "my games"-subfolder - if only all the others, who do create folders other than in the destination one, did that, it would be a whole lot less against my taste already. But as there is no common pattern (and hell no ´requirement´ as snoopy put it, or ´right way´ according to kuci) it just evolves into an uncontrollable mess. I dont only have one mum fiddling with my underwear, but half as many as i have games and each one has its own idea, where things belong - get my gripe ?

The "my games" subfolder is an official folder, as far as I know... many games don't have the "Games for Windows" logo (this is new as of this past year, I think), or are old enough for it not to be required of them. Many of the things Firaxis does, some of them irritating to the devs themselves I suspect (like updating to use the newest DirectX, which caused the initial BtS patch debacle) are mandated by Microsoft...

Having the standard location is the best way, so you know where they're stored. Having to install six times for six users is idiotic, space or no... more and more games are following this standard, which is a good thing in my book, and allows more consistent (=more clean) folder usage. Having your executable files in one place and your data files in another means:

1. Multiple users can have independent data files with only one executable file location
2. User profiles can be managed more efficiently
3. Data backup is more effecient, as the backup program can back up "my documents" and doesn't have to back up "Program Files"
4. Users do not have to navigate the often complicated Program Files structure and instead navigates the simple "My Documents" -> "My Games" -> (your game) structure to find their saves.

Ultimately, they're making it so the 'novice' user is able to play the game easily and efficiently without having to know that much about how it works. For an expert user, sure you can locate the files elsewhere; in fact, you CAN store the information in the program files folder if you prefer. Set the exe shortcut to contain the "/ALTROOT=blah" command, and it will create a new folder in the PROGRAM FILES subfolder containing all of your information. This is quite possibly what caused the problem (in relation to the mod) - one thing it does is delete your current My Games profile, for some reason - but it accomplishes what you asked (puts it in the program files folder).

Unimatrix, sounds like this would do what you want, yes?

[snoopy369]

When I say "blah" I mean put whatever you want there, by the way, not blah (though you could use blah if you want)... I'm not 100% sure I recall the specific text for it, but that should be right. If it's not I'll check when I get home.

[Unimatrix11]

Thanks for the info, your advice and effort, snoopy.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
Hmmm - yeah the kind of security that made the thread-starter loose all his saves...

No, actually. Civ4 caused the problem.

EDIT: What was the quote again, about "securtiy" and "freedom"... ?

...

Are you serious?

People like you make me sad

[Lord Avalon]

I'm the only one who uses my computer, and I've also got my drive split into a number of partitions, so I think I should have the option at install of putting my saves where I want.

[Unimatrix11]

arent you concerned about your security at all ?!