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  • karma

    An idea, to be shot down,

    I think it would be a real addition if we could work out some way of adding 'karma' into the game. What I mean by this is some way in which you can be rewarded later in the game for things which happen now.

    There are two types of situations which I think would add lots of excitement and perhaps realism (though that is not so important).

    1. Events which are far more dramatic. The black death. Volcanos which elimiate cities. Erruptions of barbarian hordes (including sea-born) even though the territory is within someone's cultural bounderies.

    2. Civil wars, and the collapse of empire. Yes this is there in a way with the colonial expenses forcing you to renounce collonies, but that is always voluntary and tends only to happen late game.

    These would create the possibility of the kind of ebb and flows of real empires - the barbarians crushing Rome, the decline of Britain as a world power despite being on the winning side of both world wars etc. But its not just a vain chasing after realism - this would add excitement - there would be new challenges in a game when you flip from being a large power to a smaller one, when the land which was giving you your iron decides to go its own way, when your plans for wonders have to be adjusted to cope with the plague.

    All of those however would hit your chances of victory badly given the current victory condidions. So we need karma in some way.

    Perhaps either:

    a. If these bad things happen to you, then your 'karma points' are increased and at a later time can either be cashed in by you or are automatically cashed in by the computer, by giving you very positive events (you might have suffered the black death in 1300AD, but in 1600 AD you get a great industrial revolution).

    b. The victory conditions are moved onto a points system (such as you have in some scenarios with victory points) so that while you might be smaller etc. because of the event, you now need to do less to win.

    Of course, such a system could be swtiched on or off by the player, so that some can just have the normal game, while others an opt for the far more chancy up and down game of kama (indeed there could be levels of unpredicabilyt you can choose between).

    Ok, shoot it down now ...

  • #2
    Do you have BtS? If so, try the Rhye's of Civilization mod/scenario. It has a lot of what you describe.

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    • #3
      "Instand karma's gonna get you" Oh wait, nobody under 50 knows this song.

      "karma karma karma karma karma chameleon" Now, nobody under 40 knows this song.
      And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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      • #4
        The first one is good. The second one is the reason why Boy George needs to be shot.
        You just wasted six ... no, seven ... seconds of your life reading this sentence.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Krill
          The first one is good. The second one is the reason why Boy George needs to be shot.
          ____________________________
          "One day if I do go to heaven, I'm going to do what every San Franciscan does who goes to heaven - I'll look around and say, 'It ain't bad, but it ain't San Francisco.'" - Herb Caen, 1996
          "If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God." - Archbishop Desmond Tutu
          ____________________________

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Supr49er
            "Instand karma's gonna get you" Oh wait, nobody under 50 knows this song.
            Wasn't it released in 1970?
            Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
            Iain Banks missed deadline due to Civ | The eyes are the groin of the head. - Dwight Schrute.
            One more turn .... One more turn .... | WWTSD

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Supr49er
              "Instand karma's gonna get you" Oh wait, nobody under 50 knows this song.
              What, they don't have 800 million oldies radio stations in CA?
              I'm consitently stupid- Japher
              I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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              • #8
                Btw, NO ONE wants to have a city eliminated by random chance unless they're playing a scenario which explicitly says this can happen.
                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Theben

                  What, they don't have 800 million oldies radio stations in CA?
                  Even if they do, they're required to play mostly Canadian content, eh?
                  Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Ben Franklin
                  Iain Banks missed deadline due to Civ | The eyes are the groin of the head. - Dwight Schrute.
                  One more turn .... One more turn .... | WWTSD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I actually like this idea ALOT!!!!!! I think the random events are SEVERELY underpowered.

                    A VOLCANO! one little village is lost

                    TSUNAMI!! Rebuild a road for 20 GP

                    You get the idea...I want the volcano to roast a city or a Tsunami to raise the sea level and obliterate a coast or resources. Some random events, even if it happens less frequently, should actually be able to set a civ back or put them way ahead, that way the games are more dynamic and victory is never guaranteed. (of course this would all be optional)
                    Last edited by TieSolo; December 8, 2007, 13:22.

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                    • #11
                      They're severely underpowered b/c after 17 years of tinkering with random events someone finally figured out that players don't appreciate having their ZOMFGTEHAWSUM empire wiped out by a random throw of the dice. It's called gameplay>realism.
                      I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                      I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Theban - yes of course the possibiliy of losing whole cities to disasters or rebellion should be an option that you can switch on or off. But you are wrong to say nobody wants it, or thats its about gameplay>realism.

                        Gameplay is exactly the point. Some of us want excitement and challenge in Civ, not just the steady rolling out of a strategy. OK in BtS you can get the unexpected wars etc., but still too often you can map out a strategy in your head and get on with it. Even higher difficulty levels still don't change the sense of steady evolution.

                        So give us major events, but with some system of karma to balance it all out.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Theben


                          What, they don't have 800 million oldies radio stations in CA?
                          Not in San Luis Obispo. The college station plays some really out there music. All my student assistants think the 1980's are ancient history.

                          If you want to feel old, the incoming freshman class was born in 1990 .
                          And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Priest
                            Theban


                            Thank you for learning our ways quickly
                            Last edited by Kuciwalker; December 9, 2007, 14:41.

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                            • #15
                              THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                              AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                              AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                              DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

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