+2 Hammers from Temples/Monastaries?

[Fitz]

I noticed a couple of days ago I was getting +2 hammers from temples/monastaries of my state religion. At the time, I assumed I one of the early Wonders was giving me this. But I saw it again tonight, and tried fruitlessly to hunt down the reason for this. I sure don't remember this in Civ4 before, and I can't find the documentation for this anywhere in the Civolopedia. The building doesn't document it, the Concepts Religion section doesn't, nor does the BtS Concepts section. Anyone know where this came from, and where it is documented? Or has it just always been there and I've never noticed?

[Robert]

It means that you have accepted an Apostolic Palace resolution. It gives extra hammers to all your buildings of that AP religion.

[Bhruic]

You don't have to accept a resolution. All you need to do is have the same state religion as the AP religion. At that point, all religious buildings of that religion will give you the +2 hammers.

Bh

[DaveV]

I hate to disagree with a guy who's intimately familiar with the source code, but I've had the AP production bonus in conquered cities, even though my state religion was different. I think the bonus is automatic under all circumstances, as long as the temple/monastery is the same religion as the AP.

[Bhruic]

Well, for that you'd have to argue with Solver. I thought it was supposed to work the way you describe, but when it wasn't working in that fashion in one of my games, and I mentioned it to him (this was pre-3.13), he said that it was working as intended (what I'd done was switched to Taoism, built the AP, switched to Judaism - my Taoist buildings didn't have the hammer bonus).

Bh

[The Priest]

I think the answer is that the AP itself doesn't have a set religion. It takes its religion from the state religion of its the owner.

Thus if you are Taoist and build the AP, Taoist buildings get the bonus. If you then change to Judaism, they won't any more before effectively the AP is no longer Taoist.

But if someone else has the AP, and say has Hinduism, then what you do with your state religion won't make any different. Its Hindu buildings that will get the bonus. Certainly in my current game, I have buddism as my state religion, while someone else who is Hindu has the AP. In the cities I conquer from a third party who have hinduism present, I am building temples quickly, because when built these Hindu temples give the +2 hammers.

[Bhruic]

No, that's not true - the AP does have a religion. Whatever the state religion is of the Civ that builds it becomes the religion of the AP. If the Civ that built it switches religions, the religion of the AP doesn't switch with them.

Bh

[Solver]

No, that's not true - the AP does have a religion. Whatever the state religion is of the Civ that builds it becomes the religion of the AP. If the Civ that built it switches religions, the religion of the AP doesn't switch with them.

That's correct.

And yeah, the AP is supposed to work the way it does now (unless someone changed the code again). If you are Taoist and build the AP, you are supposed to lose the hammer bonus if you switch religions.

[Fleme]

What a good topic.

I was actually wondering about this the other day when I noticed that there was +2 hammers next to all my religious buildings. Needless to say I did build Temples, Monasteries and Pagodas to every possible city and enjoyed the +6 hammers along with the other bonuses. I had no idea where the bonus came from though. I didn't have the AP but my neighbor who had Taoism as his religion had it.

Just to be clear: Is it enough if I just have the same religion as the AP is or do I also have to agree on a resolution? Does something negative happen if I disagree with something?

[The Priest]

You don't have to do anything - like agree with a resolution - to get the bonuses, but if you defy a resolution you lose the bonuses, though you can get them back if you agree to a later resolution.

So you start in the club, lose the bonuses if you are naughty, get them back if you are good.

[Solver]

Is it enough if I just have the same religion as the AP is or do I also have to agree on a resolution?

It's same religion.

Does something negative happen if I disagree with something?

If you vote no, then no - nothing bad happens. If you defy (veto) a resolution, you get a considerable happiness penalty.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Bhruic
You don't have to accept a resolution.

I mean 'accept' as in 'don't defy'.
If you defy the resolution, you won't get any hammers.

[Bhruic]

Oh. That's kind of an odd way to put it tho', as the "default" position is that you haven't defied a resolution yet.

Anyway, as long as we're in agreement.

Bh

[guermantes]

In my current game I defied an 'end-war resolution' twice because I really needed to conquer the incas (and I wasn't quite aware of the severity of the happiness penalty). Anyway, I have now been through that steel-bath and have come out on the other side quite ok, but there has not been a resolution for 29 turns so I am still without the hammer bonuses to my temples/monasteries.

Except for in two cities!!

Both belonged to the incas, but one of them, Tiwanaku, I had already conquered when the second resolution came up. The other one was the last city of the incas and was theirs when the last resolution came up.

But I have AP hammer bonuses in both. Why is that?


savegame attached - played with Bhruic's 1.21 plus suppl. patch + Blue Marble and KingKong's flags and colours mod (which is a purely graphical mod).

[Maniac]

In my latest game I was Hindu, yet got +2 hammers from Christian buildings, the Apostolic religion.