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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
To get a bank going, people need to put money into it.
All that is required is for people to decide that putting the money they don't want to spend right away in a bank makes more sense than putting it under their mattress. Granted, it costs money to build the bank building, but that is no different from the need for money to pay the people who build any other type of improvement. In Civ IV, that aspect of the cost occurs behind the scenes.
To get a University going, you need to pull "scientists" (in the civ sense) into the University to get it going.
On the other hand, if the scientists in the university can use their students to help them in their research, they may be more productive in a university setting than they would have been elsewhere.
On the other hand, if the scientists in the university can use their students to help them in their research, they may be more productive in a university setting than they would have been elsewhere.
That is true once the university is up and running. I mean do you know how hard it was to get teachers* for a medieval university? Even to write things like textbooks in the enlightenment era?
But once intellectual capital is invested, the university becomes quite an important center of research.
*Competent teachers for anything but theology.
PS You guys would be surprised just how much mental effort is required by some of my professors to organize their offices…
Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila
Granted, it costs money to build the bank building, but that is no different from the need for money to pay the people who build any other type of improvement. In Civ IV, that aspect of the cost occurs behind the scenes.
I think you're not getting the point. I don't mean for the cost to represent the workers pay.
I mean, it should represent the sacrifice of you're civilization of short-term gain for long-term gain.
The thing really is that all major banking institutions need substantial capital to get started, whether this source is private or public is irrelevant in this case, since the game is called Civilization and not Government.
I don't know how literally to take you're comment about the pillows, since the average person only got into banking in the 20th century. If you mean the wealthy Italian merchant of the 16th century you are correct.
Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila
That is true once the university is up and running. I mean do you know how hard it was to get teachers* for a medieval university? Even to write things like textbooks in the enlightenment era?
The time required to write books would not be per university because once a book is written, it can be copied without any additional interruption to the author's research. And since research is generally much more useful if it is spread around than if people who discover new ideas keep them to themselves, I view the time spent writing books as an integral part of the process of building up technology, not as a waste that diverts time away from building up technology.
I also don't see where you get the idea that while a university is being built, its future teachers have to suspend their research efforts. Depending on how thorough the teachers want to be, they might start a little bit before the students arrive in order to have some extra time to plan their lessons. But most of the teachers could continue their previous activities right up until the university is almost ready to open.
[I've edited this post to correct an error where I misremembered the prerequisite for Education.]
Last edited by nbarclay; November 18, 2007, 14:45.
I think you're not getting the point. I don't mean for the cost to represent the workers pay.
I mean, it should represent the sacrifice of you're civilization of short-term gain for long-term gain.
The thing really is that all major banking institutions need substantial capital to get started, whether this source is private or public is irrelevant in this case, since the game is called Civilization and not Government.
I don't know how literally to take you're comment about the pillows, since the average person only got into banking in the 20th century. If you mean the wealthy Italian merchant of the 16th century you are correct.
You're so focused on half the picture that you're ignoring the other half. One of the central characteristics of modern banks is that the amount of capital they keep on hand is significantly less than the total amount of capital that their depositors would need to keep on hand if the banks did not exist. This is because banks operate based on an expectation that they will never face situations where all of their depositors need to withdraw all of their money at the same time.
Granted, when a new bank is founded, there is a brief hiccup in which the capital the bank has on hand is greater than would otherwise be necessary. But this is a strictly temporary situation, and lasts only until the bank receives enough deposits and loans out enough money to reach its normal operating status. Taking gold away from a player permanently to reflect a brief hiccup in the flow of money would be grossly unrealistic. And trying to represent the hiccup as a hiccup would make the game more complicated without making it any better.
Originally posted by Unimatrix11
Printing Press is not a pre-requisite for education. I pretty much always go: Phil, Paper, Educ, optics, liber (astro), Prin pres...
Your right; I somehow managed to get Printing Press and Paper mixed up. But even before the advent of printing presses, it was possible to hire copyists to make copies of books. The original author didn't have to interrupt his research to write a bunch of extra copies.
I've been skimming quickly, so my apologies if I missed this, but something nobody mentioned is that if gold "mixes" with shields, then that gold is far cheaper than if I just clicked the "buy" button. When I'm outright purchasing a building or unit, the gold:shield ratio is ridiculously unfavorable, nowhere near 1:1. Otoh, if gold mixes with shields here, then 1 gold = 1 shield. I suppose we could get around this by having separate pools of gold and shields that *each* must be filled before a bank could be produced. But why? I can't think of any way in which that improves gameplay, and frankly, think of it as one more thing I'd have to keep track of. And from the above debate, even the realism is in dispute.
Your right; I somehow managed to get Printing Press and Paper mixed up. But even before the advent of printing presses, it was possible to hire copyists to make copies of books. The original author didn't have to interrupt his research to write a bunch of extra copies.
Ehh, I never said anything about making copies... I meant the intelectual capital invested to write a new book.
Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila
Originally posted by Heraclitus
I mean do you know how hard it was to get teachers* for a medieval university?
Medieval "universities" generally weren't any such thing. They were simply places you sent your second sons IFF (if and only if) they had no talent for the martial arts and weren't suitable for the priesthood. It wasn't until the Renaissance that the whole concept of education took off.
Well ,the whole point is that a bank or a university si not only a brick and mortar building but an institution, wich requiers either financial or intellectual capital in RL.
Well, I can see that making sense for banks, but I don't think it's true for universitites.
Generally, in real life, if a researcher is hired to teach at a university, it dosn't "cost" any intellectual capital; he's still doing research while he's teching. In fact, he's probably doing more research then he would have been able to do on his own, the research he does is made more useful and valid by university-based peer-reviewed publications and such, and at the same time the university is incresing the educational level of the society, which probably in civ terms means even more research in the long run. I can't imagine that a university being built will ever SLOW reaserch, even in the short run or "while it's being built" or whatever; 'intellectual capital' is not something that gets 'spent' like that. If anything, if one country builds universities and other countries don't, that would tend to get some of the intellectuals to move to that country in a "brian-drain" type effect, so even in the short run the country building the universities should have a bonus.
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