Vikings won’t disappear

[wtsoxfan]

I am playing a standard game with the victory conditions as only conquest. There were 10 civs but I have wiped out two of them. I just finished wiping out the third, which is the Vikings, but after I captured their last city, they are still listed as a civ in the side menu. I can open the diplomacy menu and they have no cities listed and they want me to make them a vassal. I want them to disappear altogether like the other 2 civs I took over. Its been about 20 turns since I invaded their last city, and they are still around.

Does anyone have any idea why they would still be around or how I can get rid of them?

[Cyrus The Mike]

did you check all the islands? thats what usually happens.

[DaveV]

There's an option in game setup called "complete kills" or something like that. If it's enabled, you need to kill all of a civ's units to eliminated it.

[ColdPhoenix]

If you haven't enabled complete kills then go and have a chat to them. If you've destroyed most of their civ then they'll give you their world map as part of the peace treaty. Send some troops over there then declare war when the treaty expires.

[Quillan]

The diplomacy menu only shows the cities you have discovered, either through exploration or map trading. Even in BtS, espionage won't reveal cities you haven't discovered, so the probable cause is that they have a city or two you just don't know about.

[ColdPhoenix]

Originally posted by Quillan
The diplomacy menu only shows the cities you have discovered, either through exploration or map trading.

Didn't know that was the case. Getting their world map will sort it out though.

[jbp26]

also, correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe that the diplomacy menu lists all of their cities except for the capital (since it can't be entered into a trade under any circumstances). so when they are down to their last city, you wont see any cities in the diplo menu.

[ColdPhoenix]

Originally posted by jbp26
also, correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe that the diplomacy menu lists all of their cities except for the capital (since it can't be entered into a trade under any circumstances). so when they are down to their last city, you wont see any cities in the diplo menu.

That's the way I thought it worked too; you certainly can't see their capital in the diplo menu as they can't trade it away. According to Quillan it only shows cities you know about.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Quillan
The diplomacy menu only shows the cities you have discovered, either through exploration or map trading. Even in BtS, espionage won't reveal cities you haven't discovered, so the probable cause is that they have a city or two you just don't know about.

I believe this is wrong - unless this has changed in BtS, you can ask the AI for cities you don't know about. I've certainly done so in the past, though not sure if I've done it in BtS. It's an effective technique for seeing how many cities are left to destroy/conquer.

However as said above, it never lists the capital.

[eris]

Even if the goal is conquest, doesn't having a civ offer you capitulation count towards the victory? In other words, if you eliminate or vassalize all other civs, isn't that a Conquest victory?

If this is true, why go chasing after the last Vikings when you don't need to? Vassalize them and go on to the next scheduled victim.

[Quillan]

Well, Snoopy, in my experience it's true. At the least, in a recent game, I talked to one of my neighbors who only showed three cities in Diplomacy. This was right when I got Writing, so we made an open borders agreement, and my scouts went off searching through their lands. I found 5 more cities, which only then showed up on the diplomacy menu.

On searching my memory though, I don't think it's been necessary for me to see the actual city, just to come within sight of the cities cultural border. I never can see the other civs capital cities in the early going until after open borders, and can usually only see their newer cities if I'm on a hill next to their initial border.

[snoopy369]

Quill: do you mean as available to trade for? That's not been my experience, as i've often been able to trade for cities that are on islands and such (it's a good way to see if there are unknown cities you aren't aware of). But again I haven't used that trick in BtS so maybe it's changed.

[jbp26]

Originally posted by eris
Even if the goal is conquest, doesn't having a civ offer you capitulation count towards the victory? In other words, if you eliminate or vassalize all other civs, isn't that a Conquest victory?

If this is true, why go chasing after the last Vikings when you don't need to? Vassalize them and go on to the next scheduled victim.

you get 1/2 of your vassals land area counted towards your total for a conquest victory, i believe. not sure about population.

[Quillan]

Yes, I do. Even though those cities are typically red, all but the capital capital normally appear on the list, but I've never found a city on the list that I haven't discovered yet. Once paper is reached, world maps get traded so much that it's not really an issue from that point on, but it pops up a lot for me in the exploration stage of the game. I'll either be unable to reach a certain area of my starting continent because it's blocked by other borders, or one of my neighbors will plop down a city in an area I've already explored but haven't visited in a while. Generally I need to either find the city manually or via map trade before it will show up on the diplomacy menu. And, as I've also discovered, even if I have so many espionage points allocated to the civ that I would be able to see every city, they don't show up on the map until I've found them. From that point, I see their city radius, but not until then.

[ColdPhoenix]

Originally posted by jbp26


you get 1/2 of your vassals land area counted towards your total for a conquest victory, i believe. not sure about population.

That's for domination. For conquest you must destroy or vassalise all other civs, land and population don't come into it.