obsolete ivory

[guermantes]

Hi,

I was on the receiving end of some shady ivory trade with degaulle in my last game because I needed the happy faces this gave me. Then when I eventually researched industrialism I was prepared to lose the happy faces from the elephants since that tech obsoletes ivory, but they did not disappear. They remained for as long as the trade was active.

Which prompts my question: What is being made obsolete when we research industrialism?

[Supr49er]

Maybe ivory in your borders become obsolete, but you can still import it?

[Quillan]

"Obsolete" isn't a global classification in this game. It's civ-specific. In the case of resources, when you research a technology that makes a resource obsolete, it only means that your own improvements can no longer harvest that resource. In the case of ivory, you can no longer get ivory from camps within your borders, but everyone else in the world can still do so. They can still trade it with you, too, up until the point where THEY research the tech that makes it obsolete.

In about half my games this happens, usually because I'm trading for fur or ivory, both of which become obsolete in the mid to late game. Whale does as well, but it's rare to find anyone with a surplus of whale resources.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Quillan In about half my games this happens, usually because I'm trading for fur or ivory, both of which become obsolete in the mid to late game. Whale does as well, but it's rare to find anyone with a surplus of whale resources.

I always thought resources should morph when they become obsolete.

Whales --> Oil Ivory --> Game Preserve Fur --> Zoo

[Targonis]

I have always felt that nothing should ever go obsolete, but the uses may change. Things like military units may become obsolete due to there being a better technology. That should not eliminate ivory from being used though, it just means that for military purposes it is obsolete.

It would also be nice to see other resources added to the game, or to have lesser or greater sources of resources as well.

And for those who are about to say that these things can always be modded in, I prefer to stick with official changes to the game, only going to mods for fixes(like the unofficial fixes to the patches). If you play with mods too often, it puts you at a disadvantage when playing without mods.

[Petrus2]

Originally posted by Targonis
I have always felt that nothing should ever go obsolete, but the uses may change. Things like military units may become obsolete due to there being a better technology. That should not eliminate ivory from being used though, it just means that for military purposes it is obsolete.

For some things (copper comes immediately to mind) that does happen already. Not sure it makes sense for ivory or whales though. To make whales more useful and more historically correct, you could allow putting a whaling boat on a resource outside your national borders. Of course, I'm not really a fan of making things any more complex. Too many exceptions/special cases just clog up the rules.

[wodan11]

Ivory and Whales become obsolete because of the political correctness bias of the game (the same reason that the UN promotes only one type of each civic line... the most "enlightened" choices only).

Wodan

[joncnunn]

There is some basis in reality though: Ivory, Whales, and Fur all used to be items that made everyone happy for a few thousand years, but more recently each in turn started making others unhappy and so this got implemented by canceled it out. I guess though they found it easier to disconect the local resources than disallowing accepting it as trade.

Also, from a game standpoint, there Hit Musicals, Hit Singles, and Hit Movies to make people happy in the modern era. These would all be pretty pointless if Ivory, Whales, and Fur still made people happy.

Originally posted by wodan11
Ivory and Whales become obsolete because of the political correctness bias of the game (the same reason that the UN promotes only one type of each civic line... the most "enlightened" choices only).

Wodan

[Unimatrix11]

How about making them obselete with the adoption of environmentalism ?

[wodan11]

Joncnunn, except that Musicals, Singles, and Movies are only available to a single player.

What, Unimatrix? you want to make Environmentalism even less worthwhile?

Wodan

[Quillan]

The wonders of Broadway, Rock 'n Roll, and Hollywood provide the controlling player with 7 Hit Musicals, Hit Singles, and Hit Movies respectively. That player can then trade as many of those to others as he wishes. The game mechanic is that the three obsolete happiness resources are replaced by 3 new happiness resources that are tied to wonders rather than geographic locations.

[ColdPhoenix]

The number of hit movies etc is determined by map size. They're more powerful than the obsolete resources as they are doubled up by radio towers and can't be pillaged away. You do need to be on decent enough terms with whoever's got the wonder if you don't have it but you can always capture the city of that's a problem!

[Unimatrix11]

Originally posted by wodan11

What, Unimatrix? you want to make Environmentalism even less worthwhile?

Wodan

Actually: no. It had to be rebalanced of course.

[Nugog]

Originally posted by Supr49er


I always thought resources should morph when they become obsolete.

Whales --> Oil Ivory --> Game Preserve Fur --> Zoo

The uses changing for some resources is an interesting idea....



Whales --> Oil Ivory --> Game Preserve Fur --> Steak house!

[Krill]

Actually that is something that'd be cool to see implemented in CiV.