a 'barb maginot line' question

[guermantes]

I try to position warroirs and archers early on well outside my borders in order to have a long warning time when the barbs start coming. But I am not sure from where they actually can come. I know they spawn in the fog (even if I have been there before) but what about the interaction with other civs?

Below, the other civ should not get barbs spawned inside the white areas, but since those areas are foggy for me, can barbs spawn there and come in my direction?

(After posting the images I notice that I made the white areas too large so that the other civs can't actually see all the tiles inside them, but i think you understand what I am asking anyway. )

[Arrian]

I can't see your pictures, but to answer your question:

Barbs can spawn from any tile that is covered in FoW. It is my understanding that a tile that is "visible" to another civ cannot spawn barbs. Only tiles invisible to all civs can spawn barbs. I think.

-Arrian

[wodan11]

Agree with Arrian's answer. I use this technique myself (considering it safe if a rival is hiding the fog) and have never had it bite me in the butt, so I'd say it's safe.

Keep in mind though that barbs can spawn on the other side of your rival, march through his territory, and straight into yours.

Wodan

[guermantes]

Originally posted by wodan11
Keep in mind though that barbs can spawn on the other side of your rival, march through his territory, and straight into yours.

That's a good point. Thanks to the both of you!

As a curiosity, has anyone ever had a barb spawn in a tile similar to the on the lower screen in the 'white area' south of my warrior and closest to the oasis? That would be the single tile in that area that is invisible to both civs.

[Quillan]

To my way of understanding it works something like this: each turn the game calculates how many squares of land are invisible to all civilizations. Every so many of those squares (it varies depending on game speed and map size) one roaming barbarian is allocated. I do not know if it spawns a whole new batch every turn or only spawns the difference if more are allocated than already exist. These barbarians start wandering. Typically they go for the squares with the highest defensive value and normally head for the closest civilization.

I've found that the picket line not only gives you advance warning, but since it causes the barbarians to spawn closer to your rivals than to you they tend to get the brunt of the attack.

Oh, and Guer, as far as I can tell there would be two squares in your final picture that would be invisible to both you and the green civ: the square directly south of your warrior and the square east of that one, just north of the first hill. Unless he has some units that can see that square, only the line that forms the vertical leg of the backwards L would be visible from his cultural borders.

[Welnic]

I've seen them appear in a single foggy tile.

I have a favorite application of other civs fog busting for me. There are times when I have a area behind me that no other civ can get to except by going through my culture. In this case I concentrate on expanding toward the other civs saving that area for later expansion. I often run open borders early so that I can get through the other civs territory, but then I have to close borders to seal off the back area. I try to do this when the other civs have a scouting unit in there so that they can fogbust for me since they can't go anywhere.

[wodan11]

Regarding that top image... I think you're both not quite right... the lower left tile of Lagash is a hill, and hills "see" 2 tiles away, so none of those tiles are invisible to Lagash.

Wodan