Naval warfare in BTS

[couerdelion]

There is something that seems horribly wrong about naval warfare in that it allows an aggressor huge freedom in sending a large stack. Even if you can see this stack arriving, you either have to DOW the AI first or wait for it to sail towards one of several cities which each have to be defended.

And all this has to be done in the one turn available to you after spotting the fleet on its way.

Just for information, can someone explain why subs are more useful than destroyers as a screen.

[Quillan]

Minor reasons only: they are invisible to most units, and since Flanking I is a prerequisite to Sentry, they get an improvement to their already high chance of withdrawing from combat.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by couerdelion
There is something that seems horribly wrong about naval warfare in that it allows an aggressor huge freedom in sending a large stack. Even if you can see this stack arriving, you either have to DOW the AI first or wait for it to sail towards one of several cities which each have to be defended.

And all this has to be done in the one turn available to you after spotting the fleet on its way.

Why wouldn't you just DOW the aggressor?

[Unimatrix11]

He might trigger a mutual defense treaty on the aggressors side and nulify one on his own, right ?

[Quillan]

That is exactly right. If you declare war before he enters your territorial waters (which don't extend far enough out), you'll nullify any mutual defense pacts you have, trigger any he has, and you get the diplomatic hit for "You declared war on our friend!".

[Unimatrix11]

The problem seems to be, that fleets are too fast (at least for the tastes of some) - mod them slower so they cannot dow and unload the same turn...

[Quillan]

That's not the problem, as it already takes typically 8-20 turns to get from one continent to another. If you slow them down it'll be even longer. The problem is that your cultural borders never seem to extend more than 3 squares out into the water. Even a galleon can declare war and unload on the same turn.

[Ming]

I really don't see a problem with that. Heck, we do it to the AI, they should be able to do it to us

You just have to have a few mobile forces spread out across your empire that can reach any attack point in one turn. There is no need to have every city defended with large stacks.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Ming
I really don't see a problem with that. Heck, we do it to the AI, they should be able to do it to us

You just have to have a few mobile forces spread out across your empire that can reach any attack point in one turn. There is no need to have every city defended with large stacks.

Depending on you landmass shape, it pays to have a mobile defense stack that can cover 4-5 cities. With a sub/destroyer screen you shouldn't be caught by surprise, and your other mobile stack can be brought to bear.

[couerdelion]

It’s really just a minor inconvenience because you mobile forces might not be sufficient to defeat the stack immediately on landing. Add this to the problem that every city within range of the invasion fleet must also be sufficiently defended to resist an amphibious assault. This can lead to your mobile units being spread out until the forces are landed and then their reallocation might only be sufficient to reinforce the target city to ensure that it is held.

So I am assuming that the stack will effectively have at least one free turn after landing. If these are mounted units then you can expect to get a few improvements pillaged before you get the chance to destroy the stack. With lone units on clean tiles, you then have to leave a wounded unit there which can be attacked by any remaining enemy forces.

Hardly enough to break an empire and your enemy is going to suffer far more than you will. But it is annoying nonetheless because it means that a random attack can cause some pain almost regardless of how strong you are.

[Ming]

If you plan right, they don't get the one free turn

If they do, you haven't really set up your defenses properly, and you don't have enough units in your mobile defensive groups.

[CerberusIV]

I don't know exactly how it could be modded but the simple answer is to only allow units with the amphibious promotion to unload from ships that have moved that turn.

It would have fairly major implications for gameplay though and make major invasions extremely difficult.

Am I right in thinking that bombers cannot destroy roads/railways in BtS? Mine seem unable to do so which makes it a lot harder to isolate an intended landing area.

[famousguy]

I've won and lost a lot of wars and the key defense is your navy because that can keep them from landing on your continent. but dont focus on your navy if you are waging a land war, that would just mean you wanted to over-blockade them. Never EVER! advance with your navy unless it is with a transport that is carrying men for a landing or a counterattack. the only way Ragnar could have such a largenavy is he prepared for it a lot. thats the main aset to winning a war.

[Yosho]

The other thing is, on some maps, navel defenses can be completly avoided even after war has been declared; it's sometimes possible to just send the fleet over from inside a AI city you've got an open borders with and drop your army off with no possible way of your ships being intercepted. I've won wars that way, in situations where I couldn't otherwise win a navel battle (usually when he's got ironclads but I can't get my ironclads to his continent.)

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Yosho
The other thing is, on some maps, navel defenses can be completly avoided even after war has been declared; it's sometimes possible to just send the fleet over from inside a AI city you've got an open borders with and drop your army off with no possible way of your ships being intercepted. I've won wars that way, in situations where I couldn't otherwise win a navel battle (usually when he's got ironclads but I can't get my ironclads to his continent.)

Really, ironclads? They obsolete so fast for me that I never build them. I suppose they could guard your ocean resources.