Naval warfare in BTS

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Supr49er
With the tougher AI navy I always keep a submarine screen between my continent and ALL others. It gives an early warning.

Only thing, if a "friendly" Civ sails an armada of dozen transports and escorts through your screen, they don't wince...


In general, maybe those DD's have a lot of Drill promotions?

[unamablebuiler]

I am finding that they are using combat promos on destroyers as i am using them also on my battleships.

I did land 8 tanks but they were killed in 1 turn. He has cavarly + airships.

As for promotions i have just the city it has 4 great generals in it and is building wastpoint.

Ragnar is running vassalage, theocracy, monarchy, merchantilism, caste. He has +20 unhappy due to war weariness

I am running Univ Sufferage, free speech, emancipation, merchantlism, free religion. I have 3-7 unhappy due to ww


Destroyers are Str 30 and flanking doesnt increase attack strength or do aything to naval combat except alter withdrawal odds.

I dont see how subs are going to stop destroyers subs are only 24. The computer is using their transports as kamikaze runs on my battle ships if they run out of destroyers locally.

Most of my defence is done by infantry used agressive still the problem is after the 5th stack of 20 units of thiers arrives I have 10 infantry and tanks in the yellow or red and reinforcements 2 turns away from the other side of the continent. nearby cities are drained of units as far as I am willing to risk. below 4 infantry you will loose to a stack of 20-30 units and you cant tell if there is a 6th stack waiting for just an opportunity infact if I did reduce my garrison there would be a stack of his units there.

If I see a fleet of transports near my land less than 6 tiles and the "friendly" isnt at war with anyone he will be assumed to be about to land on me and will have war declared on him.

[Sir Og]

Drills are a lot more usefull promotions than combat if you have tech advantage. (btw I have a feeling that for some reason sea battles produce stranger results than land battles in cIV)
A unit with drill is more liekly to win and what is more important it will most probably be a lot healthier after that win. (if not unharmed) Also drill reduces collateral damge.

If you want to see the power of the drill on land give Ethiopia a try.

[MoonWolf]

My suggestion for this particular game, is that you ask for peace each round and if you get it, rebuild your army and attack him back.

[joncnunn]

Re: Re: Re: Naval warfare in BTS

Perhaps the AI is reloading when it loses destroyer vs battleship attacks?

More likely though it has something to do with every earlier naval ship upgrading to destroyers + cheap AI promotions so the AI has vetran destroyers.

Originally posted by MoonWolf

AI luck? Have some times lost against insanly good odds, also several times in a row... However, if a lot of people expire this destroyer vs battleship, then it should maybe be looked into.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Quillan
1 infantry or 1 cavalry attacking 1 tank will almost certainly lose, however it's going to damage the tank in the process. A second attacking has a chance of winning depending on how much damage the first one caused. If it still loses, it will also damage the tank. The third will probably win, and by the time you get to a fourth you're almost certain to win. Quantity is a quality all its own.

Not only that, but the AI is deadly with at cannon/cavelry attacks. I've had stacks of 15-20 infantry just slaughtered by a bunch of cannons followed by a bunch of cavelry.

If I just want to hit a AI on a different contenent and end the war, but only have a very limited number of tanks/infantry I can send over there, I just go in and raze his capital. It's really the only way sort of a really major and expensive invasion force; you simply can't hold it against the cavelry rush, and even if you could you'd lose it to culture unless you also take several other cities. You have to either have a MASSIVE rapid-strike army, have to be willing to keep up a deadly and expensive war of attrition for a long time, or you have to just go in and raze a city or two until he makes peace on good terms.

Also, if he's sinking your battleships with destroyers, he'd probably hitting your ships with air forces first. If he's got planes or airships to hit your battleships with, he can then wipe them out with destroyers with minimal casualties.

[unamablebuiler]

Ironically thats who I am ..... half of my infantry were oromo woarriors who got handed lovely high powered rifles as part of an upgrade program. I now have first strike infantry with a couple of other promotions at level 2 or 3. My machine gunners all get more drill promos.

hes near my coast he doesnt have bombers and his land is out of range of mine.

I think i am in a better position so far as as war weariness goes he has to build jails and such to stop his people starving. he has + 20 WW and + 3-5 unhappy due do we demand emancipation.

he can't keep up in tech if i keep the war going and I am the resident of the AP (confucian) while ragnar is also confucian. His cities are a mix of religions that i mostly founded. I am very suprised monty hasnt gone to war with anyone for a long time.

Perhaps the AI is reloading when it loses destroyer vs battleship attacks?

why wouldnt that suprise me

the battleship being sunk vs destroyer still had me beat. maybe the were all pre jutland dreadnoughts and badly built and commanded. nomally a battleship salvo would sink a destroyer ... if it hit.

[Yosho]

Probably just bad luck, then.

I often see the AI do the tactic of attacking lone battleships with destoyers; it seems that my battleship usually sinks his first destroyer, but his second destroyer usually sinks my damaged battleship. It's a good trade for him, losing a destroyer to sink a battleship.

[unamablebuiler]

I did have some astounding luck not long ago an unprotected transport sunk a destroyer. Despite his better ships I still managed a beachhead though and isolated case where an undamaged tank was killed by a single cavarly on the attack.

Also noticed that the AI can be really dumb when you pile units up next to thier borders

[Quillan]

You have tanks and infantry, while he has riflemen and cavalry. If I were mounting a naval invasion with that tech advantage, the minimum I'd go over with would be 24 tanks, 16 infantry, and 4 artillery. Preferably I'd go over with 24 tanks, 32 infantry, 12 artillery, enough marines to take the first city by amphibious assault, assorted battleships and destroyers, 3 carriers loaded with fighters, and have at least 4 extra fighters ready to rebase as soon as I took the first city.

Normally I try to land the minimum possible originally, just enough to withstand an attack, bombard the defenses down, and take the city. The rest stay on the boats, and unload after I take the city so they can move. I usually scatter them inland a little bit in an effort to soak up the counterattack.

[rah]

The trick on the first city is take the city and move your other troops in pillage every road to the city on the same turn. Now the thirty artillary that end up one square from the city the next turn(since they can't attack that turn) can easily be mopped up. You should be able to defend in the city against the 2 movement units, especially if you have a tech advantage.
Hole up in that city for a few turns, and the entire AI's retaliation resources should be expended. Now go conquer at will.

This used to be easier when you could get gunships earlier since they could do multiple pillaging and still get back into the city, but even with lesser units, you should just lose one of the pillaging stacks.

[Yosho]

Originally posted by Quillan
You have tanks and infantry, while he has riflemen and cavalry. If I were mounting a naval invasion with that tech advantage, the minimum I'd go over with would be 24 tanks, 16 infantry, and 4 artillery. Preferably I'd go over with 24 tanks, 32 infantry, 12 artillery, enough marines to take the first city by amphibious assault, assorted battleships and destroyers, 3 carriers loaded with fighters, and have at least 4 extra fighters ready to rebase as soon as I took the first city.

That seems like pretty massive overkill. Especally as, if you wait until you have those kind of numbers, he'll probably have at least infantry before you even land.

If you've got that level of tech advantage, and you're already in a war with him, I'd engage ASAP and start bleeding him down with superior units, even if I only had 4-5 of them. That dosn't mean just plop them down in the middle of his empire and let him kill them all, of course; small skirmishes, preferably take an isolated cities on his perephery if you can, and slowly build your forces up over there (especally if you've got airports) while bleeding his guys away. Or else go in and burn a city or two to the ground when he's not expecting it.

Even if you want to go in in force and take his capital right away and hold it, you usually don't need anything close to that kind of force. Frankly, I'd rather go in with a third of that, take his capital, and hold it the best I can while waiting for reinforcements. Even if he ends up taking it back, I just killed his economy while also probably costing him most of his army, and I'll go in again and wipe him out; that way he NEVER catches up to you technologically.

[unamablebuiler]

This is a bit later on. 50-75 turns
There has been an outbreak of peace as I over extended and tried to take a second city on his far eastern side. Nearly lost 20 tanks to cavarly and would of if I didn't. Those tanks moved back to my beachhead with a stack of 25 or so infantry + marines in the beachhead. Shored up the city by building airport +all cultral buldings I could. + 100 culture per turn in that city.

Found out who had the statue of zeus. It was one of the viking cities deep in his empire but within easy striking distance of the coast only 3 defenders. During peace I built a second force and sent it over just out side his cultral borders. The task force rendevoused there AI is stupid what would you do if you saw a lot of juicy un escorted transpots heading to a point with lots of ships?

His army is probably broken. an enormous stack of cavarly of his attacked my beachhead and was wiped out completely, his air force of airships was target practice for my fighters.

I still have my tech lead.
I have attack subs promoted flanking so 4 out of 5 times on average they will be able to retreat.
I will have jet fighters about the same time he gets fighters. on the edge of getting modern armour, Apollo is being built and I dominate culturally. The game is probably won by me.

The others(monty, the protugese, shaka, roosevelt) are either vassal of ragnar or so far behind I doubt they could really yank a victory via space or culture and i have 40 percent of the worlds population.

[gdijedi7]

I had a submarine sink my missile cruiser without taking any damage.

My upgraded Stealth Destroyer had combat odds of 35% against a non-upgraded Destroyer in my territory.


Naval combat is indeed odd.

[Unimatrix11]

Always have a couple of nukes around for an upcoming enemy invasion. I have just confirmed my theory that the US-government must have known that iraq did not have WMDs before they decided on war, for else an invasion would have been impossible. The enemy fleet consisted of like 6 transports, 8 destroyers, one carrier, carrying3 fighters - all that on two adjacent squares. Two nukes and they were all gone. Its nice to know that nukes can kill enemy units. So if you have some nukes in stockpile and have second thoughts about using them on enemy cities, use them on their fleets !