Cancel Current Trades = Refuse to Talk ?? (confused)

[Lost Soul 1]

OK, I need some help via explanation/experience and some follow-up advice.

Here’s my current game setup: Warlords v2.13 (I haven’t transitioned over to BtS yet), Noble (my first game back in a while), normal speed, terra, moderate, 6 AIs...currently in 1200s (all 6 AIs still exit, two just barely).

I’m Mehmed (current score/tech/land leader).

I was requested by an AI (Peter, not much of a factor in the game so far—“Cautious” diplo with me) to cancel my current trades with Augustus Caesar (medium factor/neighbor—“Pleased” diplo with me). I meant to hit the “Take a hike” option but mistakenly accepted Peter’s request to dissolve my trades (numerous) + open borders with Augustus. Well, after quickly choosing the wrong option, I was angry but figured, “well this will be interesting to correct in a couple of turns” since I don’t believe in going back to an earlier time to correct anything…if it happens, even by mistake, then I must deal with it is my attitude.

Immediately after the trade cancellation, my relationship with Augustus turns to “Cautious” (stil +1) from the previous “Pleased” (was at about +3 or +4) along with a “Refuses to Talk” message.

Figuring I can get open borders and some of the trade back within a couple of turns—after Augustus cools off—I wasn’t too worried, even though Alexander quickly DoWed me due to his vassalizing of a very small Cyrus (who I was trying to eliminate once and for all and was very close to doing so). (Alexander and Augustus have “Pleased” diplo relationships with one another if that matters.)

Well, despite checking each and every turn, 25+ turns after mistakenly cancelling my trades status with Augustus, he still “Refuses to Talk” and is stuck at +1 “Cautious” in the diplo screen. I can only imagine this will go on for a long time (why?) without much I can do. I could understand if we were at war (I can’t even declare on him if he refused to talk, right?) or he/I had “Furious” diplo, but we aren’t/don’t.

So, how can I remedy the above situation: getting Augustus to (1) talk to me again, and (2) open up trade again (since he’s only at “Cautious” this should be impossible)?

Is this a bug in the program? Can a trade stoppage (especially one with a previously “Pleased” AI) cause a “Refuse to Talk” response or is something else causing this? Does it have a turn limit—that is will this eventually fade so that I can open up diplo relations with Augustus again? If so, by when (typically)?

Outside of that, if I decide to declare war on him (to travel through his land to take on Alexander or just to kick some of his butt in retribution for the uncalled-for “Refuse to Talk”), how do I do so if he refuses to talk and thus I can’t follow the normal way of declaring war through the diplo screen?

Any advice for a similar situation in the future (other than restoring a saved game and replaying up to the point of my mistaken option choice)?

Look for some feedback and advice…

[Solver]

If you cancel deals with a civ after being asked to do so, yes, they'll be pretty ticked off and refuse to talk to you for a while. That makes sense - you are stabbing them in the back (economically) and supporting an embargo against them.

But you can declare war on him. If you click on his name in the diplo list while holding down Alt, that will declare war.

[Nor Me]

The answer, which can be found in the XML, is that he has a 1 in 30 chance of forgetting that you just stopped trading with him each turn. I doubt there's anything you can do to help.

[Lost Soul 1]

OK thanks for the feedback/advice...much appreciated. Now, I'm going to have to expedite my invasion and domination of AC sooner than I wanted to in order to re-establish control of my current game.

Note to myself: Think twice before quickly selecting your response to any future "quite trading with..." requests.

LS1

[Blake]

The no-talking thing is the "Enforcement" of cancel trading, at a conceptual level it's a bit bass-ackwards, but it's the simplest effect implementation to enforce the deal.
(Because it'd be toothless if you could immediately just re-create all the trades).

[joncnunn]

What I personally don't like about cancel current trades is the civ that's demanding this doesn't give you a bonus if you comply. It's almost enough to make we want to reload the last turn, manually remove the deals myself and reform them the next turn.

[demon59]

If you sailed up to one of his cities in a caravel or two (don't trigger DoW) and gifted them to him, would it help to change his mood?

[Gaius Octavius]

Originally posted by joncnunn
What I personally don't like about cancel current trades is the civ that's demanding this doesn't give you a bonus if you comply. It's almost enough to make we want to reload the last turn, manually remove the deals myself and reform them the next turn.

That pretty much says it all. You do get a bonus in terms of the diplomatic modifier, but it's meager. If the AI could give you a tech or resource as an incentive, this would be more useful.

[joncnunn]

I looked at the leger and details. It's -1 to the civ you cancel the deals with (that makes sense to me) but no entry at all to the civ that demanded it. In fact it's doesn't even prevent war for 10 turns with that civ like giving in to a tech demand would.

Originally posted by Gaius Octavius

That pretty much says it all. You do get a bonus in terms of the diplomatic modifier, but it's meager. If the AI could give you a tech or resource as an incentive, this would be more useful.

[Gaius Octavius]

Really? I could've sworn I've gotten positive modifiers from other civs. ("You stopped trading with our enemies" or something to that effect.)

[Sotamuumi]

It might be that you don't get positive diplomatic modifiers by accepting the demands, but you can avoid getting negative modifiers

[Dis]

exactly the point. there is no bonus. There is a penalty for not doing it, however.

feels like a lose-lose situation to me.