Espionage

[ben04]

What do you use espionage for? I find that it is a very poor investment of hammers and money. Is there any strategy that needs them to work or is it just for goofing around and stinging the AI on the lower levels.

To see the power graph of the AI the few EP I gather using my palace and my courthouses is way enough.

[joncnunn]

Personally I keep it locked at 0% and just try to use the free points from palace, courthouse etc for defense by concentrating the points on my worst neighbors.

[Blaupanzer]

I use it to "To see the power graph of the AI." Other than that, I use specialists for the Great Spy more than the points they generate. However, a whole sub-game can be made out of the spy points, stealing techs, screwing up AI productive cities, etc. I haven't mastered this yet.

[The Priest]

i'm with johncnun on the whole.

But I did have a game when it because a very powerful invasion strategy. The 'support city revolt' option isn't that expense but can be deverstating. I was finding that for 300-500 EP i had a 70% chance of having a revolt which brought the cities defenses to zero for a turn. This made invading very quick. Spy brings down the defenses, cavalry hit the city and take it in one go. Without the spy, it would have taken at least two goes to get artillery close, and then at least one turn of bombardment before a final attack. Which would give the Ai the change to reinforce etc.

You would have got the same effect with a properly built invasion force of artillery etc. but the speed and lack of the need to build the artillery more than paid for the espionage.

[ben04]

That is indeed a use for spies. Never yet used them to bring down city walls.

[LDiCesare]

Spies are great at stealing techs early on and can be useful to bring down city defense. They are also useful as scouts, but that doesn't require espionage points.

[Yosho]

Late-game, spies are very useful to disrupt an AI going for a space race or cultural win condition. (More space race, of course, but poisoning wells and cutting off key resources with spies can slow down culture generation in his key cities.) If they AI is hurting you badly, counter-espionage is also worth the points.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Yosho
Late-game, spies are very useful to disrupt an AI going for a space race or cultural win condition. (More space race, of course, but poisoning wells and cutting off key resources with spies can slow down culture generation in his key cities.) If they AI is hurting you badly, counter-espionage is also worth the points.

Counter-Espionage is very much worth your points. Even your allies will poison your water and destroy improvements.

[joncnunn]

I thought that AI behavior on who to spy attack was supposed to be based on your relations. (Attack those you don't like).

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by joncnunn
I thought that AI behavior on who to spy attack was supposed to be based on your relations. (Attack those you don't like).

Not so. I've had a friendly voluntary vassal who (before 3.13, of course) spent many spies into my lands & doin' stuff. There were no other civs on the continent, however, and obviously I don't know to what degree he applied himself once he had caravels, etc.