Privateer

[Arrian]

Yeah, frigates and ships of the line require Iron, so if you lack it you would be stuck with caravels (or galleons? or do they req iron too?).

-Arrian

[dac]

Nope, Galleons don't require any resources, but they fare poorly against privateers. Don't remember the cost comparison. Of course, Galleons can do things that privateers can't.

[Arrian]

And even worse against frigates, obviously. So if you're a civ w/o iron (at that point in the game? ouch), having the no-resource privateer available is a nice change from Warlords, when galleons would be the best you could do against enemy frigates.

-Arrian

[dac]

Oh, the game got better. I had to get plastics before I had oil. Part bad luck, part stupidity on my part. I vassalized Tokoguwa (man I can't spell that), before I found out that one of his useless cities had oil.) Sigh, can't attack a vassal. Then I got dogpiled and watched Galleons escorted by Destroyers vomit Longbowmen against my Infantry protected cities. Meanwhile, I was doing what I could to the Destroyers using Airships.

I'm just getting used to the Aggressive AI, never seen so many units in my life.

[Arrian]

Sounds irritating.

If you needed plastics first, that means offshore platform. I imagine that could be difficult to protect with privateers until you got some destroyers built.

-Arrian

p.s. Kekkonen makes a good point. I noticed that during my harrassment of the Dutch I got a GG. I was surprised.

[Asmodeous]

I think that if a Privateer is blockading the port of an AI that is disliked/at war with another AI, AI2 should not kill them.

I mean, Spanish War Fleets weren't blowing up the privateers that were harrassing the British and French, they just snickered and moved on to help harrass the British and French, they only bothered the ones that were bothering them or the Portugese, who they were friendly with.

It's silly, imho, for an empire that hates the Duth (we'll say) to come by and blow up the 8 privateers that are completely decimating the Dutch overseas trade.

Me.

[Arrian]

Ideally, yes.

-Arrian

[Risa]

So, how to define this behavior in a clearer way? Maybe "If privateers are spotted inside border of a country who I have a negtive feeling to, and they are at least one turn away from my under-escorted sea resource / working sea tile / high value transport fleet, ignore them"?

[Asmodeous]

Why not just "If privateer is blockading civ I am =>-X to I leave it be."?

Me.

[dac]

I have Ironclads to protect my oil platform, I got Iron when I steamrolled the Japanese (but vassalized them before I got to the oil as it wasn't visible yet).

Could we maybe code attacks on privateers to be tied to Open Borders agreements? Actually, it already is, I think, if my privateer is in Dutch waters, it can't be attacked by anybody but the Dutch, and civs that have Open Borders with the Dutch.

Even if the AI Civ "Hates" the Dutch, if they have open borders with them, you're potentially screwing with their trade. So, I'm not sure we need to mess anymore with privateers, I think the Open Border rule covers the situation reasonably well.

[Asmodeous]

That doesn't stop units that don't need open borders.

Me.

[popejubal]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Privateers are too expensive and too weak to use as the bulk of your navy during wartime.

I agree. I hate parking a few Privateers off of an AI civ's coasts to disrupt his economy and destroy his seafood shortly before I invade him.

I also hate having free Sentry promotions on my Privateers so that I can see exactly what is going on in that land before I invade it.

I especially hate being able to continue to harrass and fight my AI nemesis even after I've declared peace with him.

Also, Privateers are too fragile and weak. Their 6 strength compares poorly to the Strength 4 Galleons I'm sinking as they try to invade my continent. Their 6 strength also doesn't measure up to the 3 and 2 Strength Caravels and Triremes/Galleys that I'm sinking to rack up Great General points in preparation for my next war.


...in Civ IV, the entire game is "during wartime". It's just not officially declared sometimes.

[Kuciwalker]

Was that supposed to be a rebuttal of my point?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by wodan11
Don't get used to the caravel spam. I think I remember seeing Solver or Blake saying they were probably going to tweak that in the next patch.

Wodan

I hope so. Despite its caravel fleet, the AI was ignoring more than 1/2 of my privateers. I was running -40 gold a turn, yet still making a profit off of privateers.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Was that supposed to be a rebuttal of my point?

He forgot the sarcasm tag. He's got good points, though. Until frigates come, privateers rule. They can blockade. Think about that for a minute.

All the other points are equally good ones... getting GG points, wrecking improvements, preventing colonization via galley, etc.

Wodan