Solver, Please Fix Colony Expense Illogic - It Ruined My First BTS Game!

[Thomas Hobbes]

Originally posted by ben04
I don't know if we'll see it in a new patch. It is after all a non trivial to implement as the game doesn't yet track continious culture borders AFAIK.

It does for the graphical representation of the Great Wall, doesn't it?

[OliverFA]

Originally posted by ben04
I don't know if we'll see it in a new patch. It is after all a non trivial to implement as the game doesn't yet track continious culture borders AFAIK.

I think the game does calculate it. The group of cities we are looking for are the cities that:

- Are connected with the capital without need of open borders with other civilization (this is calculated for the mercantilism civic)

AND

- Are not overseas (this is calculated also, as you need a special tech for trading overseas)

[_BuRjaCi_]

Oliver's made a point. I think there are no serius arguments against the continius culture border idea since borders can't go too far into ocean anyway.

Until Firax impliments it, I'm not buying BtS!

[JimMac]

I really like the idea of colonies in BTS, but the more I think about the continious culture borders suggestion the more I like it. It simply seems a much better way to implement colonies.

Are there any downsides compared to the current implementation?

(Even if Firaxis does buy the idea, I can't see it happening in the next patch)

[OliverFA]

A possible "downside" I can think of is that if an empire is cut in two during war, the half that ends without connection to the capital becomes a "colony" and has higher maintenance costs. But this seems logical to me.

[marvinkosh]

Originally posted by OliverFA
A possible "downside" I can think of is that if an empire is cut in two during war, the half that ends without connection to the capital becomes a "colony" and has higher maintenance costs. But this seems logical to me.

Bear in mind though that until a captured city comes out of resistance, the owner cannot produce any culture there and so, it is likely to be surrounded by the original owner's culture. This gives that Civ time to either prepare for increased costs, enact State Property, or take back the city.

[Unimatrix11]

Well that wouldnt be a downside anyways - finally there would be a way for a proper encirclement with its supply problems for the encircled...

[olelukoie]

Well, I think, to solve such possible downsides as conquered cities and early expansion (when there is no any economy to compensate colony maintenance), colony maintenance should also take into account the distance between cultural regions. For example, if the second region is just a newly conquered city 3-4 tiles away from your main cultural border (or from any of your cities which are not colonies) - it is not a colony. But if the second region is 10 and more tiles away - this is a colony.

[Shrapnel12]

Originally posted by AAHZ


In an effort to halt ICS and warmongering, Firaxis has (unintentionally?) forced EVERYONE to warmonger to win on any level above Noble. and unless you keep to the same lame-ass axeman rush tactic in every damn game from now until Civ 5.

Actually, I think I've heard this complaint even before BtS. After reading the thread, "My Civ Notebook" (or some similar title, sorry I couldn't find the thread anymore), I've dismissed all these complaints and I still do for BtS. The author of this thread has managed to win all his games, except the first one or two, on Prince level. If I remember right, his first BtS on Prince was a cultural win. Just because you can't do it, doesn't make the game broke. That's why there are difficulty levels, for people not so good at the game (like me).

[rah]

I like the culture border, but would verify that on the same cont wouldn't trigger it, since early in the game your first 4 cities may not culturaly touch right away.

[jam3]

Well instead of making them delve into some complicated code to prevent the earlier problems with cultural borders why not just tie colony maintenance to a tech. Maybe something like code of laws, monarchy, astronomy. Just add "Colonies now cost maintenance".

[ben04]

Originally posted by rah
I like the culture border, but would verify that on the same cont wouldn't trigger it, since early in the game your first 4 cities may not culturaly touch right away.

Actually I think that leaving any special rule out is best. Continents (=culture globs) with 1 city don't have any maintenance anyway so we're only talking about a couple of cities founded a bit away with border pops, probably founded to secure some resource or to cut of some other civ and keep room for further expansion. These should cost to avoid abuse. Also remember that maintenance for 2 cities is not even a whole coin in total.

[Zinegata]

Originally posted by Solver
I would think that Firaxis noticed this thread already. Whether they think it's a problem is up to them.

Not to mention it's a crime for Solver to be doing the patches anyway :P

[Shrapnel12]

In my first game of BtS, I had three separate areas of the map settled. Two were on the same continent and one was in the "New World". I could afford it, so I didn't want to grant my overseas colony independance, but I would have liked to give the other patch of cities (the ones separated from my capital) independance. I could have given them to other civs, but I wanted the cities to be a friendly vassal. I too wish there was more control over what cities become colonies and I wish you could create colonies on the same continent (though probably not many people want to do that).

[tsubame]

As for the early game limitation, I don't think that would be a big problem- it's a slight nerf to early game expansion- but probably not that big.

Second suggestion- expansive should get a buff of reduced colony maintenance.

The more I think about it, the cultural border idea is what I really want instead of the current system. I'd also like to see it where all non-connected cultural cities are eligible to be part of a spun off colony. That change would likely need to be done as well.

Wondering if this stuff is moddable as is so it could be done before an official patch.