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Frustrated Domination player asking for help with BtS

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  • Frustrated Domination player asking for help with BtS

    OK, so I first played Civ IV a year ago when Warlords was released. I never liked Civ III, but I really enjoyed my time with Civ IV and played it for about a month straight before putting it away. Recently I bought the new BtS expansion and began playing again, only to become incredibly frustrated 3/4's of the way through my first game!

    It started when the Celts declared war on me out of the blue. My long-standing rule when dealing with other nations that launch an unprovoked war against me is to get my "pound of flesh", i.e. 1-2 cities to make sure they think twice before attacking me again. So I grab one of Boudica's cities and ask for peace, which I get. Shortly thereafter a vote comes up in the Apostolic Palace requesting that I give the city back! I defied the resolution, but the other three nations on my continent, including the one I have excellent relations with, all voted that I should give the city back!

    A couple of turns later, Boudica attacks again and this time I take two cities, though my people are starting to rise up and agitate, obviously pissed that I chose to become an International Pariah by defending our nation from an unprovoked attacker ...

    So, eventually Boudica agrees to peace again and a few turns later another vote comes up demanding that I give Boudica one of her cities back! Of course, everyone else votes against me, so I defy that resolution as well. A couple of turns later, Booudica declares war on me again! By now my cities are in an uproar thanks to so many unhappy citizens and are rapidly shrinking due to starvation. Even after capturing another city, Boudica will not talk to me and instead agrees to become Germany's vassal, who now promptly attacks me and takes the Celtic city back. I wiped out the initial German force, but neither Boudica nor Bismarck will speak to me and my entire empire is in a total uproar!

    I'm sick of it all. Not only does it not make any sense for my people to be so profoundly unhappy with my success in a defensive war, it ruins most of the enjoyment in fighting wars altogether!

    I'm ready to throw BtS in the garbage, but first tell me this: What am I doing wrong? Is there a way to fight wars in BtS without having these problems? Should I continue to resist, or should I start over?

    Domination was hard enough before BtS...Now it seems nearly impossible!

  • #2
    I'm finding BTS is definitely harder...and in 5 games played through, I haven't faced the issue you're facing where I've been asked to give cities back. Not sure what causes it. But I have read that defying resolutions is typically a really bad idea. There will be others that can probably give you a better overall explanation and advice, but for starters, vote no and hope other AIs agree with you. You may still lose the city, but in defiance, you get all the other AIs on your case and your own people at your throat.

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    • #3
      It's a nice story... the only word I have for you is: WELCOME!

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      • #4
        I know of only two solutions.

        Solution number one is to prove to your people that you mean business by taking each and every city from the enemy.

        Solution number two is to defy the resolution and if your people are upset about it, declare war on the civ with the Apostolic Palace and raze the city that has it. Proving to your citizens and the world that you arent going to listen to crybabies.

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        • #5
          Defying resolutions should only anger all other civs in the AP. It makes sense to have your citizens get a little angry at you, but it sounds like the modifier is too negative.

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          • #6
            I would have gone after the owner of the Apostolic Palace, but it is owned by the Egyptians, the one civ on my continent that I have excellent relations with! ("Pleased", to be specific.) That's one of the core reasons for my frustration. If the AP were controlled by a hostile people like the Celts or the Germans, the AP's actions would make a lot more sense. But if friendly nations are going to use the AP to force me to return each and every city I capture or face crippling unhappiness bonuses, then something definitely needs to be fixed.

            Above all, it makes no sense for my people to be so unhappy when I am highly successful in a defensive war. It would make far more sense for the public to be ecstatic, almost a mini-Golden Age, rather than becoming so unhappy they'd rather starve to death than simply go to work while their leader is out kicking ass on their behalf...

            The whole situation is quite mad when you think about it...And it needs to be fixed because it is terribly frustrating right now, unless there is something I am overlooking (besides the obvious build/capture the A.P....)

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            • #7
              I would always raze the city with the AP to the ground.

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              • #8
                The file GameInfo\CIV4VoteSourceInfos.xml controls the frequency of votes in the U.N. and Apostolic Palace. Increasing the intervals could take away most of the organizations' power, perhaps even to a point where there will never be more than one vote. Also, in GlobalDefines.XML, I found the entries DEFY_RESOLUTION_POP_ANGER and DEFY_RESOLUTION_ANGER_DIVISOR. If DEFY_RESOLUTION_POP_ANGER means what its name implies, it could be modified to reduce the amount of anger that results from defying resolutions, or quite possibly to eliminate the anger entirely. Assuming I'm right about what these parameters mean, changing either or both could make the game a lot more fun for people who regard the Apostolic Palace as overpowered.

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                • #9
                  Pretty idiotic if there's randomness to when the AP can vote.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wiglaf
                    Pretty idiotic if there's randomness to when the AP can vote.
                    Where do you get that there is randomness?

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                    • #11
                      I've decided to just start a new game and build the AP myself. While the Apostolic Palace definitely needs adjusting, I have to say that I am impressed by the BtS A.I. in general. I've been playing the Civ games since Civ II (which I played almost constantly for years) and my current game is the first one in which I've seen the A.I. attack with huge armies, use varying tactics from war to war in an attempt to exploit my weaknesses, and make complex political decisions when in a crisis situation.

                      Admittedly, I haven't played Civ IV with the latest patches before I installed BtS, so I doubt veteran Civ IV players will have much trouble with BtS. But, overall, I'm Impressed and think the guys at Firaxis deserve kudos for not resting on their laurels. The game is starting to pick up some of the nuances that makes the Europa Universalis games so good, while still remaining true to what the Civ games are supposed to be all about...




                      Still gotta fix that A.P. though...

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                      • #12
                        The AP can be a pain in the ....

                        I always try and build it for that reason.

                        I have not seen the results you describe however - so at a guess I would concur with Rockoon, either take the whole AI civ asap, or go burn the AP down.

                        No idea what that would do - if all AP member civ's would attack you or not - will be interesing to find out though.

                        Welcome to Aployton BTW.
                        I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

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                        • #13
                          I've been lucky so far, the AP always seems to get built on some other continent

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                          • #14
                            Note: Just because you build it, doesn't make you the resident. You also need to make sure you have enough votes or people who like you to vote yourself as the resident.

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                            • #15
                              Yeah, in my game, Mensa built it, after having spread his religion to every single one of my cities. We are the only two on our continent and since i am the bigger one, i rule the A.P. despite the fact, that he built it. But as long as only two civs have contact with each other, its not worth much anyways...

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