please show me how to topple Justinian...

[guermantes]

Hi,

My first BTS game I played as Ragnar but I aborted because I had no good territory to expand to and got hopelessly behind. In the second the random generator chose Gilgamesh for me and I have been doing better but it seems I can't come out as top dog on the continent. Justinian is just a little bit better than I am all the time. And I who just had switched to Prince level in the vanilla games, now I have trouble again at Noble.

I sacked the Koreans in order to get some room and resources to build a large invasion army to get a few of Justinian's cities. But once I was on the go he whoppled me bad and I exited to desktop in despair.

So I am wondering if I am just too much behind and that it is not possible for me to win any kind of victory. I.e., I am starting to get that feeling that the game is already lost so it's not so fun to play anymore.

But perhaps someone here would see this as a challenge and show me their strategy for sacking the byzantines enough to establish top position on the continent if it is possible.

It is a standard Continents / Large world / Normal speed / Noble -game. So far there is hardly any interaction with the other continent though.

Here is a savegame from when the peace treaty with the koreans were signed and I turned my attention to Justinian. If anyone would want to take up the gauntlet I would be very glad.

[Solver]

First and foremost, it's still relatively early in the game. On Noble, the game is never quite lost at this point. Overcoming difficulties like this can lead to the most fun games.

You have the advantage here, in fact. Justinian likes you, so you're free to attack him when you want. And he doesn't have Military Tradition, so you're the one with the military advantage, as you have Cuirassiers. Though he admittedly has kickass Cataphracts.

Constantiople is your primary military objective. It's Justinian's capital, it's close to your border and it's the Hindu holy city - Hinduism is the world's biggest religion here, so taking it will boost your economy.

You should have used Slavery in the early game, if you had, you'd be in an even better position now.

I would finish researching Economics and go Free Market for the trade boost, then quickly invade. Take Nicaea to distract his attention, as it's a poorly-protected city anyway, and move full-strength to Constantinople, probably try to sign peace after that. That would be enough to set Justinian back enough so that, in the long term, you'll be able to run him over.

[Solver]

Well, here's my take on it. Nicaea and Constantinople taken, although most of the siege is lost (you don't have a good assortment of siege units). Espionage was useful. Gained a Great General and thwarted the Byzantine counter-attack on Kish.

From here, you can either sign peace (I assume he'll be willing very shortly), or move for Thessalonica. I would probably just sign peace, complete your round of Observatories and Education, then build some more siege and units and attack against in some 15 turns. Though at any rate, Justinian is now weakened to the point where he won't have much of a chance.

[Solver]

The forum software doesn't get it. To open the save, you need to properly capitalize the extension (CivBeyondSwordSave)

[One_more_turn]

When I face a tough opponent, I usually raze its cities. I will only hold territories until I feel confident to do so.

[guermantes]

Thanks Solver!

I was trying to take out 3 cities (Const./Nicea AND Tessaloniki) at once and thus waited too long to attack initially. When I did he already had plenty of airships that weakened me as I approached. The lengthy delay for the first war was probably my mistake.

So after seeing your result, I started off again from the save and went for only 2 cities first - and went more or less directly to war like you. Now it is 150 years later and more or less all of his territory is is mine. Good thing I got to see that it was not too late.

[Solver]

Congratulations

Use espionage to your advantage. In your save, you could see that Justinian wasn't far away from Physics, I took it as an important clue to attack fast, before he can get a fleet or Airships up. And next time, build a few more siege units for City Raider / Accuracy promotions.

[guermantes]

Yes, I had totally missed that there is an Airship unit. I have only played vanilla 'til now. And when they first appeared I thought they were just markers of a new era. "Wow look at them hindenburgs!" - neat effect, sort of. Didn't cross my mind that they could be units on reconaissance.

I usually promote my siege with Barrage for the collateral damage, but I'll try a few times with CR or A to see what the difference is.

(Thanks for the great BTS review by the way!)