Drill (first strike) vs Combat 1 promotion

[frenzyfol]

In what case would you choose to upgrade your unit with drill rather than combat 1?
I did some experiments with the world editor and combat 1 units nearly always one vs drill 1.
Is the only advantage take less collateral damage?

[Kuciwalker]

When my unit starts with +5 xp and I'm Protective.

[Willem]

Drill is a good one to give to defensive units. The first strike can shave a few points off the attacker's total hit points before it actually attacks, making it more likely that it will lose the main battle.

[snoopy369]

Drill is risky, because some units have 'immune to first strikes' (mostly mounted units), but if you have proper defenses you have a spear or pike to deal with that pesky horse archer or whatnot.

It's useful for throwaway units (units you won't expect to win battles), because it means they'll do a bit more damage before dying. If you're sans metal, and are launching an attack, you can do so with archers (or longbows) by drilling them up. They'll do some serious damage before dying, even on low % chance to win, and the next archer/longbow will come through

Also useful for Cats/etc. for the same reason.

[Tiberius]

Drill is also good for units that get first strikes by default, like the crossbowman or the cho-ko-nu. I had a crossbowman the other day with 3 drills, the chances for a first strike were between 4 to 6 or something like that. Not bad.

[Nugog]

Originally posted by Tiberius
Drill is also good for units that get first strikes by default, like the crossbowman or the cho-ko-nu.

Agree - plus for fortified defensive units.

[couerdelion]

Combat almost always wins over Drill as a promotion although I usually touch neither of them since the Drill promotion is open to missile (defensive) units. In those cases, the Garrison promotions will be more useful and, after that you will want to stack up on Drill.

As a general rule, combat is better than drill unless the combat odds are already in your favour.

[Kekkonen]

What about Combat II/III vs. Drill II/III?

[Nugog]

Originally posted by Kekkonen
What about Combat II/III vs. Drill II/III?

Couerdelion?

[couerdelion]

Obviously Drill II/III are not directly comparable with Combat II/III since each requires Drill I or Combat I respectively. However, the Drill promotions do work slightly differently such that there benefits get progressively better.

What I believe you are asking is therefore how Drill I+II compares to Combat I+II and so on. But even here, Drill is generally being applied to a defensive unit so the comparison with Combat promotion is not generally helpful. Better to compare with Garrison or Guerilla.

I guess that the situation might change for defensive units that can be used offensively. Notably, Crossbows, Musketeers, Grenadiers etc. There might, for example, be a case for promoting one or two units through the Drill route and use them as convoy units for an invasion stack. With suitable defensive terrain, the drill promotion might be more effective at repelling softening attacks, particularly in reducing the collateral damage from catapults and the like. I would still imagine that stack variation would probably provide the same level of defence (eg pikes, rifles promoted through Combat I/II to formation, other promoted through Combat I to Pinch etc, Cavalry promoted through to Anti-Cannon)

This is probably more gut-feel but I think I would still apply the drill promotion more to city defenders and here it would come after the standard Garrison III promotion leaving little room for any Drill promotions.

[Nugog]

: popcorn:

[snoopy369]

Again, drill is highly useful for attackers who are not expected to win individually. Especially Drill 2 or 3. It's also significantly more useful than city garrison as it has dual abilities

[MrWhereItsAt]

Recall that Drill is available to ships as well. I'd never used it before, until this first (Won Apostolic Palace vote! ) BtS game when my Privateers had so many upgrades I didn't know what to do with them. Since I was already beating the Caravels sent my way, I stocked up on Drill. What this means is that you can damage the enemy ships before they get a chance to damage you as in regular combat. This can lessen the amount of damage you end up with, which is useful for Privateers since you can still be caught in the open after an attack, as you can't hide behind anything other than other Privateers in a stack! Less damage from a successful combat = more chance of surviving a potential counterattack. This is particularly important since ships can have long ranges and may reach you from afar.

Although in my game I saw that the free shots I got at the ships happened, maybe I was simply unlucky enough that I always seemed to end up just as damaged whether I had Drill promotions or not.

Still, it was good to know that my Drill IV Privateer would have gained a 10% bonus vs any mounted units it could have encountered. Gotta watch out for those SeaHorse units...

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Again, drill is highly useful for attackers who are not expected to win individually. Especially Drill 2 or 3. It's also significantly more useful than city garrison as it has dual abilities

By dual ability, I assume you mean the collateral damage reduction. But I can't see why you think it is significantly better. Personally I'd still see the higher win % as being superior to the savings made by secondary city defenders who might have drill promotions.

I rarely have more than one specialist city defender in my cities because I expect to be fighting my wars in enemy territory rather than having to defend my own. I don't like building more units than I need

[Kekkonen]

Originally posted by couerdelion
Obviously Drill II/III are not directly comparable with Combat II/III since each requires Drill I or Combat I respectively. However, the Drill promotions do work slightly differently such that there benefits get progressively better.

What I believe you are asking is therefore how Drill I+II compares to Combat I+II and so on.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm a strictly by-the-seat-of-my-pants player (which I suppose explains why I'm challenged by any level above Noble), and what I've figured is that Drill I is only useful because it's the only path to Drill II, III, etc.

And for the record, while Drill promotions may not be the best thing since sliced bread, Oromo Warriors built in a Barracks city under Theocracy are nasty.