Counter-Espionage

[Solver]

No such option, though I do believe you won't have too much trouble if you simply ignore espionage.

[Bkeela]

Solver, are you serious? Having mass mayhem like having improvements destroyed, cities poisoned, techs stolen, etc, being wreaked across your land by all opponent AI's, even in times of peace - how could that be ignored?

It is bad enough with the original spies, destroying uranium mines every single turn and having to rebuild them every single turn - I simply cannot imagine the fun of that happening now from the ancient era...

Sounds to me like it is going to take A LOT of micromanagement to stave off enemy spy activity.

[Solver]

Actually, having the AI do missions other than improvement destroyment is relatively rare.

Anyway, you could make a no-espionage mod.

[Todd Hawks]

You can simply delete all the (active) spy missions in the xml file if you don't want them. Makes spies a little pointless, but maybe you can leave stuff like "steal technology", "spread culture", "steal treasury" and similar mission in since they won't result in additional micromanagement.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Bkeela
Solver, are you serious? Having mass mayhem like having improvements destroyed, cities poisoned, techs stolen, etc, being wreaked across your land by all opponent AI's, even in times of peace - how could that be ignored?

It is bad enough with the original spies, destroying uranium mines every single turn and having to rebuild them every single turn - I simply cannot imagine the fun of that happening now from the ancient era...

Sounds to me like it is going to take A LOT of micromanagement to stave off enemy spy activity.

When you get to playing the game you'll realize it isn't this bad. "Mass mayhem" doesn't happen as long as you take countermeasures, eg putting spies in cities and running the counterespionage mission. Also, during peacetime, it's pretty risky for anyone to place spies in foreign territory. Every turn they run a significant risk of getting caught, which hurts relations and obviously loses the spy.

you'll find other complaints.. for instance, some missions aren't so useful. Stealing gold in particular is a waste (though missions consume EP and not gold, in practice, the only way to really amass EP is through trade income...aka gold). AI also needs to do different missions. And, when you're doing missions, it'd be helpful to see your EP ratio with the target civ in the dialog box.

[jdchambe]

I do not mind the spy mechanic much, though it does have a lot of micromanagement overhead.

My biggest problem with it is the lack of any clarity on the numbers. I despise games that make me guess through trial and error at what the actual rules of the game are. The manual or civilopedia should just state in plain simple terms:

1) what the odds of a spy getting caught are
2) how garrisoning your own spies impacts those odds

as for the rarity of the sabotaging of buildings, and poisoning of water: that may depend upon what kind of victory you are going for. Go for a space race victory in a game where you haven't gone and conquered all of your opponents first and the AI starts poisoning cities and sabotaging buildings constantly. They will even attempt to destroy components of the spaceship after they have been built but before you launch the ship.

[Wiglaf]

A lot of civ is very vague. The numbers are under the hood for the most part.

[jdchambe]

for combat units it is not vague. in unit to unit combat you know exactly what it means for an axemen to get a bonus against swordsmen, and for chariots to get a bonus against axemen.

but for the spy unit's detection chance, there is no information at all.

[SFADAMS44]

Originally posted by Solver
Actually, having the AI do missions other than improvement destroyment is relatively rare.

Speaking just for my latest game, this is completely wrong. I've had 3 cities poisoned (one twice) and one with a library destroyed. Only one improvement destroyed in this game. In all the BtS games I've played so far, this is the only improvement I've had destroyed.

I have caught a good number of spied in my territory, but most of them have been on an innocuous site or in a city (and I assumed they were there to poison again!!)

[ghen]

In my current game I've been making sure that counter-espionage is active at all times. Its fantastic, not only can the AI do less against you but they have more of a chance of getting caught due to "English counter-espionage efforts". Some spies also get caught normally, but by far most get caught by counter-espionage. I'd say about 75-80% of caught spies.

I've put one spy in every border city, as well as one spy in major cities (large ones where poisoning would hurt: IE surrounded by desert). This seems to help a little, as I catch spies as they cross the border instead of when they actually try to do something.

I've kept the espionage slider at 0% the entire game and had enough points to get a minimal amount against everyone (~97% spending on the Esp. window) and maximum against border civs. (I can see inside their cities).

I made one mistake against a religious partner.. I didn't think he was going to attack me, so I didn't put any points in him.. but oh well thems the breaks I razed one of his cities for it.

[Kekkonen]

Originally posted by SFADAMS44
Speaking just for my latest game, this is completely wrong. I've had 3 cities poisoned (one twice) and one with a library destroyed.

Well, isn't it nice that the AI doesn't take the gloves off with you? I just reduced Tokugawa from a constant threat to a whimpering puddle of goo by first infiltrating a Great Spy and then poisoning his major production centers... a couple of turns after I had first done the Foment Unhappiness trick on them.

That, BTW, was too easy.

[SFADAMS44]

Originally posted by ghen
I made one mistake against a religious partner.. I didn't think he was going to attack me, so I didn't put any points in him.. but oh well thems the breaks I razed one of his cities for it.

This happened to me too. My religious partner was the one that bombed my library and took out my improvement. Am currently building the forces to reduced her to ashes.

Originally posted by Kekkonen Well, isn't it nice that the AI doesn't take the gloves off with you? I just reduced Tokugawa from a constant threat to a whimpering puddle of goo by first infiltrating a Great Spy and then poisoning his major production centers... a couple of turns after I had first done the Foment Unhappiness trick on them.

Not complaining that the AI doesn't pull punches (I like that), just pointing out that improvement destruction doesn't seem to be the AI's primary goal (at least against me!)

[Shrapnel12]

I've had one of my cities poisoned, and several (not too many though over the course of the game) attempts have been made agaisnt me, but my EP are much more then my rivals and I have spies in my cities. I have yet to see an enemy spy though. I usually don't know they are there until I get the message they've been caught.

I have an "ally" who was caught spying against me, and I'm disappointed I can't call him up and complain to him. There are things I can do back to him, but I wanted a more diplomatic approach and one that would encourage him to stop but not get him mad at me. Would be nice if you could make a request for your rivals to stop spying like in MOO.

[=DrJambo=]

The spread culture spy option is ridiculously expensive!! It's hard to imagine using this even if you managed to accrue the necessary points, particularly when steal tech is cheaper and seems the more natural choice.

Why is it so much?

Seems a waste having an option that's just not going to be used...

Does the AI ever save up for the steal tech or spread culture?

[Wiglaf]

Bkeela: I've only played 3 games, two epic and one marathon, but I've only gotten one city poisoned and only 2 bombed improvements. Meanwhile I've stolen about 4 techs. Counterespionage seems very useful.

And no, AI doesn't know how to use the better missions well, I think.