BTS: In defense of State Property

[wodan11]

One thing I think you're missing (or, at best underemphasizing), Blake, is that both SP and Corporations are maximized if you plan ahead and/or do other things to get the most out of them.

For example, you toss out the food benefit of SP. Yes it's a benefit. However, you get the most out of this benefit if you plan ahead with your terrain improvements, city placement, and more. The same is true of corporations (no matter which one, but some more than most).

The maintenance benefit of SP is an instant benefit, and may make SP worthwhile just for that. However, the other benefits, and the need to plan ahead to get the most out of it, is not necessarily so.

Anyway, in pretty much all games, I know what civics I'm "going for" by the early game. I know if I'm staying in Slavery or switching. I know if I'm going for Free Religion or keeping OR, Theocracy, or Pacifism. And, I know if I'm going for SP, Mercantilism, or Free Markets.

The changes in BtS, and Corporations, if anything emphasize even more the need to plan ahead. "Need" may be too strong a word, because you can enjoy the game just fine without this. However, to min/max planning is essential.

Wodan

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by monkspider
I never much cared for state property, if i am running a large empire, i would rather use the old mercantilism-statue of liberty-representation combo.

Same here. I tend to skip Communism altogether in the development line unless I'm running a spiritual civ, where I can skip back and forth without the anarchy.

[couerdelion]

I think State Property is very dependent on what has gone before. If, the period up to early industrial has been one in which you have successfully mastered your local region then there is a fair chance you will have 30+ cities. Assuming, at this stage, you have chemistry and replaceable parts, then one would hope that most of your river tiles will have been switched, or are being switched, to watermills and that workshops are going up in newly captured land. You may have decided to keep your existing towns but you don’t want to be building anymore.

State Property then unlocks all these tiles to allow the newer to middling cities to crank out units like there is no tomorrow and finish the whole game off. The combination of Chemistry, Replaceable Parts and Factories should massively increase your production in a relatively short space of time. The extra food from SP and the reduction in costs will make the whole thing that much easier.

If you can also arrange a Golden Age as well then this will make the whole thing even more lop-sided. Your neighbours will simply be unable to compete with you.

It’s quite easy to see State Property generating something like 3-5 extra food per city. These a similar to the benefits that some corporations give you although the difference here is that State Property reduces costs while Corporations could increase them.

I can sympathise with the feeling that Scientific Method comes with a big hit on the monasteries. This might cause me to delay it a little but I think the benefits that you gain from the techs after Sci Meth are just too good to pass up on for long. Generally, I’ll allow myself the chance to build one or two “key-point” monasteries so that I can build missionaries locally but I would expect that the GL benefits are now looking quite small so wanting to keep hold of the 6 GPP + 6 beakers (base) is looking rather pointless.

[Freddz]

Playing on Emperor recently I missed out on building corporations completely. I switched to state property in order not to be completely sunk in research/finance as foreign corporations was spread very, very quickly into my lands by rival civs. It was interesting to watch my economy go from "-50" to "+80" or something like that when switching civics to SP.

I don't think State Property is bad at all, it just requires specific situations to be really useful. And +10% hammers is decent.