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Beyond the Sword Review by Solver

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  • Colony Costs are Killing Me

    I have a problem with colony costs.

    In my current game my capital and founding city is on a coast overlooking a narrow channel with a sizable land mass on the other side to the south. As I was hemmed in on the north by rivals, much of my expansion was on the other side of this narrow channel.

    But, it seems that even though these cities on the south side of the channel are in close proximity to my capital, as close as cities on my continent of origin, the game treats them as colonies and imposes additional maintenance costs that make them difficult to hold on to late in the game.

    Adding to the frustration is the fact that when granting independence, the game allows no flexability but groups all cities on a given landmass together for independence. In my case, that meant I had to let go of cities in close proximity to my capital just across the narrow channel to relieve myself of the research crushing colony costs.

    This is not right. Why isn't proximity to capital (not just separation by water, even a narrow channel) factored into the colony cost equation? And why can't one choose precisely which cities to let go of to reduce these costs?

    This whole colony cost/independence mechanism seems poorly thought out. Because of the unique geography of my starting point, my expanding realm was unduly penalized and forced to cut itself in twain, despite the fact that all of the cities were as proximate to my capital as those in empires that were fortunate to be able to expand organically all on a single land mass.

    Why should having one's core cities divided by a narrow channel of ocean impose such a penalty? And why is there so little flexability given to remediate it? I had to let go of a "colony" (but really an old core city) three spaces distant from my capital city across the channel to get out from under these colony costs. That's just not right.

    Solver, can you get this fixed, please? Here's a simple solution: Impose colony expenses only when the water separation between "colony" continent territory and one's capital continent territory exceeds the distance a ship can travel in two turns.
    Last edited by Arator; August 9, 2007, 13:58.
    My most wanted Civ III civ which was missing from Civ II: the ARABS!

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    • Arator, why didn't you just build the palace in a city on the other continent? Wouldn't that solve your problem?
      No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
      "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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      • Originally posted by Blaupanzer
        Arator, why didn't you just build the palace in a city on the other continent? Wouldn't that solve your problem?
        Then colony costs would shift to my core cities on the north side of the narrow channel. So, that's no solution.

        Plus, I would no longer get the benefits of "bureacracy" in my glorious 25 population, mega-wondered capital. Plus, said capital would suffer the indignity of no longer being the capital.

        It is simply not logical that an organically grown core of a civilization be rendered unviable merely by being divided by a narrow channel of water. That would not happen - ever - in the real world. It should not happen in Civ.
        My most wanted Civ III civ which was missing from Civ II: the ARABS!

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        • Solver, please take note of the colony cost problems addressed in my post above.
          My most wanted Civ III civ which was missing from Civ II: the ARABS!

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          • I agree completely with Arator. (My DL (thats a joke for you stiffs ) )

            Overseas cities are already a dubious investment, especially on terra. Now these ''colonies'' are practically worthless. For one, no matter when you build the city its size 1 with no buildings-but by the time you build overseas you will have 5-15 cities and the costs would be quite large-add in the new costs and overseas building quickly becomes a money drain. Compare this to RL colonial efforts-did spain's overseas empire bring more wealth into the country than it took out? And forget conquering mexico-such a scheme would be madness in cIV. Conquer the other half of Terra from the barbs and kiss profits goodbye.

            I already play with distance-to-capitol and colonies costs set to 0. And i still find it hard to set up colonies. There is just no money in it compared to making soldiers. Which is the real warfare problem...when a single option offers the most return of any investment available it will always be broken. Unfortunatly firaxis is in ''nerf'' mode. My view:never, ever, weaken an option. Just make its alternatives more OP. Its silly to think these new catapult rules change anything.

            Imagine what would happen if peace was more profitable than war?
            if you want to stop terrorism; stop participating in it

            ''Oh,Commissar,if we could put the potatoes in one pile,they would reach the foot of God''.But,replied the commissar,''This is the Soviet Union.There is no God''.''Thats all right'' said the worker,''There are no potatoes''

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            • Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
              I already play with distance-to-capitol and colonies costs set to 0.
              How do you set colony costs to 0?
              My most wanted Civ III civ which was missing from Civ II: the ARABS!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Kataphraktoi
                Imagine what would happen if peace was more profitable than war?
                You mean like the real world??!!!

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                • Hey Solver! It's been a long time... Great review!! Happy Latvian Independence Day!

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                  • Rise, chicken, rise !

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                    • Originally posted by Arator
                      How do you set colony costs to 0?
                      Adopt the State Property civic which zeroes distance and colony costs.
                      No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
                      "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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                      • Post Deleted.
                        Last edited by quinns; January 9, 2009, 17:16.

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                        • Bump.
                          No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
                          "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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                          • One of the best reviews available! More detail than anywhere else that is not a strategy thread, and better than most of those.
                            No matter where you go, there you are. - Buckaroo Banzai
                            "I played it [Civilization] for three months and then realised I hadn't done any work. In the end, I had to delete all the saved files and smash the CD." Iain Banks, author

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                            • I take it you've personally decided that this thread should never die?
                              I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                              I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                              • Probably put a monthly reminder in his Outlook calendar.

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