Terra maps - AI has no interest in the new world?

[sirboxalot]

I've generally been playing Marathon games, Noble difficulty on a Large Continents map. Lately I've been trying the same settings on Terra and it's a much more competitive early game with 10 civs on one continent but I've noticed something weird--I'm the only one who puts serious resources and effort into conquering the barbarian buildup (usually 10+ cities) on the 'new world' while the AI simply seems to be concerned with maximizing efficiency towards the space race with the cities they've got. It makes Domination a shoe-in victory if I've conquered a few opponents on the original continent, there's virtually zero competition in the land grab from the time galleons become available to the time tanks become available.

So, is this related to the AI's not-so-keen usage of naval power? Or is it really just not worth it for them? By the time I'd conquered eight barbarian cities and founded two of my own, only one other civ put a city down on the new world, for oil.

[Wiglaf]

fantastic four was a horrible movie

AI tries to colonize new world (late) but never brings enough firepower. I don't think there is any way to fix this. Maybe BTS will improve amphibious assaults and make terra maps work.

[Dis]

yeah true about the firepower. They might bring one galleon over. But it takes alot more than that. The barbarians are fierce on those maps.

[Nor Me]

Yes, it's an AI weakness on these settings.

The AI is slow at sending settlers across in galleons, but it does it eventually. The real AI weakness is against barbarians. It doesn't try to attack barbarian cities by sea so far and even if it did, it would have to build ships especially to do so which would need planning. It would really have to be designed to do this specifically to deal with the terra setting and I doubt that it's a priority. It's even slow at attacking barbarians on land.

I doubt BTS will improve things much. From what I know of the Better AI mod, it should be worse at this. It seems as though Blake playtested almost entirely on pangaeas, although the naval warfare was improved in the end.

Still we don't know what BTS is like so you might be lucky.

I think you're best hope is a mod. I've managed to get the AI to attack barbarian cities over water the way it does other civ's cities. That's the hard part. If you made it build the units to do it as well, then it might stand a chance.

Even with these sort of improvements, it's unlikely to be able to do this with the kind of dedication a human could. To get a challenge out of this map, you'd probably have to play at a difficulty level that would allow the AI to get Astronomy a while before you do. But it would be nice if it tried...

[sirboxalot]

I think I'll give Blake's AI a try. I'm looking forward to BTS anyways, who isn't?

[Solver]

The AI weakness on that map is that it tries to colonize the New World "normally" - that is, brining Settlers and Workers. While good for island colonization, the New World is actually best colonized by bring over an army and taking Barbarian cities - many of which will be well-developed by that time. The AI doesn't do that.

[dregor]

I've found the AI to be pretty abysmal at taking barbarian cities period. Many is the time that I've seen a well developed AI city right next to a well developed Barbarian city, and the AI never does anything about it.

This is while using Blake's AI btw.

[Wiglaf]

Blake will ruin BTS if his AI is anywhere near as passive as it was in his latest AI build.

[Herreman Jarl]

The AI´s do it just right. From that you start to build your first galleon until you have a sustinable colony, a lot of time and efford are spent. Under this period your defence in the motherland is weakened so you will probably be attacked. If you spent that time and effort to build an army to capture some nabor cities you are better off. It is better with a few cities directly connected to your road network and wonders in effect than a large colony with high upkeep and contineuosly attacked and pillaged. Colonies are worthwhile only for important resources, so AI´s do it just right.

It is certainly an inspiring game concept to establish colonies and see them grow up and mature, but it is not a winning game concept.

[Jvstin]

Originally posted by Solver
The AI weakness on that map is that it tries to colonize the New World "normally" - that is, brining Settlers and Workers. While good for island colonization, the New World is actually best colonized by bring over an army and taking Barbarian cities - many of which will be well-developed by that time. The AI doesn't do that.

Right, it thinks of it as virgin territory and doesn't "Realize" that it will be wall to wall barbs by the time it gets there.

And before one of the patches, I was amazed that one of those barb cities I conquered in taking over the New World had built the Colossus.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Herreman Jarl
The AI´s do it just right. From that you start to build your first galleon until you have a sustinable colony, a lot of time and efford are spent. Under this period your defence in the motherland is weakened so you will probably be attacked. If you spent that time and effort to build an army to capture some nabor cities you are better off. It is better with a few cities directly connected to your road network and wonders in effect than a large colony with high upkeep and contineuosly attacked and pillaged. Colonies are worthwhile only for important resources, so AI´s do it just right.

It is certainly an inspiring game concept to establish colonies and see them grow up and mature, but it is not a winning game concept.

No, this makes no sense.

Has terra map AI been fixed in BTS?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Herreman Jarl
The AI´s do it just right. From that you start to build your first galleon until you have a sustinable colony, a lot of time and efford are spent. Under this period your defence in the motherland is weakened so you will probably be attacked. If you spent that time and effort to build an army to capture some nabor cities you are better off. It is better with a few cities directly connected to your road network and wonders in effect than a large colony with high upkeep and contineuosly attacked and pillaged. Colonies are worthwhile only for important resources, so AI´s do it just right.

A galleon or two filled with Riflemen works just fine to take over a few cities. Small investment -> large gain, because the barbs are so backwards.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


No, this makes no sense.

Has terra map AI been fixed in BTS?

The AI generally performs a lot stronger on watery maps in BTS. It's not optimized for Terra, in that it does best when it can expand throughout the game and it wont quite engage in a human-esque "expansion boom" to the New World, but it could easily get 2-3 galleons in operation shuttling settlers, units and workers, and also attack some barb cities.