Hunting

[MosesPresley]

I often pick a civ without hunting as a starting tech and I have to make this decision every time, I would really appreciate some input.

So,

Is it a good idea to immediately research hunting as my first technology?

Or,

Is it already too late, as a random number of unknown civs that start with hunting have a major head-start in popping goody huts?

Thanks.

[Will9]

The advantage of starting with Hunting is scouts and an easy path archery.

[MosesPresley]

Thanks, but my question in a nutshell was:

Should I research hunting first?

[Dale]

Your choice. I go the copper/iron path first.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Yes... Archery is a "safe" path. You know you'll be able to build Archers when you get Archery.

By contrast, if you go for Bronze instead, life can be difficult if you don't find copper. If you do get it, all will be well.

I'd guess that the delay in getting Scouts is secondary. You can explore with Warriors. Yes, they're slower, but they'll uncover a lot of ground by the time you have researched Hunting and built your first Scout.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Forgot to add... I usually go for the tech(s) that will let me hook up my best resource(s), first. Almost all other considerations are secondary in the very early game.

[Willem]

Originally posted by MosesPresley
Thanks, but my question in a nutshell was:

Should I research hunting first?

Yes, because that allows you to research Archery. Archers are the best defenders, especially against the barbs, and are useful for a long time.

[Brael]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
Yes... Archery is a "safe" path. You know you'll be able to build Archers when you get Archery.

By contrast, if you go for Bronze instead, life can be difficult if you don't find copper. If you do get it, all will be well.

I'd guess that the delay in getting Scouts is secondary. You can explore with Warriors. Yes, they're slower, but they'll uncover a lot of ground by the time you have researched Hunting and built your first Scout.

If you don't get it you can always rely on whipping more warriors in per turn than the AI can kill in a war.

[Dis]

I go for religion first, but I play on a level this is possible. I have played Roosevelt last 2 games, and am liking him quite a bit, but he doesn't have hunting.

one failed game I tried to wait to trade for hunting/archery. didn't work out. the barbs come to fast, I restarted as I lost a city to barbs (though my first 2 cities were low produciton too ).

I know archery is a dead end tech, but I can't survive without it. It takes too long to hook up copper and get axeman to defend against barbs.

[couerdelion]

Assuming that you are playing with a large land mass and not too densely populated, these is still a rapidly decreasing value to gaining scouts at the start of the game. As a general rule, you want your scouts all out before the neighbours arrive for tea. So I would not research hunting in order to build scouts.

After the initial rush, hunting then serves only a few purposes
a) Allows you to develop resources (one health, two happy)
b) Opens route to archery

The first is dependent on the surrounding land while the second is more of a judgement call depending on the strength of neighbours and barbarian threat.

Finally, there is a question of your existing starting techs. With Mining, Bronze might be a good route, with Agriculture and animal resources, Animal Husbandry could be a worthy goal. If you have Mysticism then consider grabbing an early religion.

Usually, I would not go Hunting first, there would often be a better option. Since it is cheap anyway, I would probably be able to research it in time for a worker to use it but the improvement is too specific (unlike farms, mines, cottages and chopping) to be of any huge value. As for the military value of archery, I often have enough time to make the “Archery detour” if I lose out on the horse/bronze gamble

[wodan11]

What skill level you play on is key here.

If you're playing on high levels, then all the AIs start with a scout. By the time you get Hunting, all the huts will be gone, for sure. So, the answer to this question ("should I start with Hunting simply to get a Scout to pop huts") is a flat out NO.

Otherwise, then I'd say you have a chance. I'm not sure it's worth the risk... much more important to get Fishing, or Polytheism, or BW, or Animal Husbandry, or Pottery.

It probably would depend on your starting commerce. Like going for a religion first... if your capitol is working a forest (1/2/0 or 2/1/0) then your speed at getting the first tech is going to be pretty slow. On the other hand, if you're working a grassland gems or something, then that will surely help.

Ultimately, this comes down to a sure thing (founding a religion, or getting some bonus such as Nets/Fishing or Slavery/Chopping/BW) versus a maybe (getting a scout out in time, and then finding a hut, and then getting a semi-good result from the hut). Most players will tell you to take the sure thing every time.

Wodan

[eris]

To my opinion, you are better off immediately making a second warrior to double your exploring efforts than you are trying to get the tech and then make a scout. Many folk start with a Warrior build anyway to let the capitol grow a bit.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Dis
I know archery is a dead end tech, but I can't survive without it.

Archery isn't a dead end tech at all. Archers stay useful until the middle ages then are replaced by Longbowman. And those are one of the best defensive units in the game. It may not lead to any other tech later, but that hardly makes dead-end. It's one of the most useful early techs you can get, especially when dealing with the barbs.

[Blake]

Depends a bit...

It's nearly always best to just shoot for the techs which let you hook up resources, then Bronze Working.

Well, hunting is a pre-req for Animal Husbandry, and all things being equal it is a better choice than Agriculture, but usually not all things are equal and you'll be able to benefit from some farms...

Archers are bad. You're far better off spamming Chariots (you don't waste a tech to get them) or Axemen.

Like if you're a Civ which starts with The Wheel and Agriculture, you should research AH because with some luck you can just pop out chariots which are move 2 like scouts, and can fight, and can get Sentry, and when you get chariots that early, they can also grab some free cities from a hapless neighbor .

Here's another consideration:

Hunting enables Spearmen, once you have both spearmen and axemen the Warrior becomes obsolete. If you neglect hunting, you wont get spearmen, and will thus be able to train warriors and axemen - why would you want to do this? Warriors are the cheapest source of "military happiness".

And it's very worth noting that when you research hunting and already have copper, then ANY warriors you are training will switch to Spearmen! This is a bad thing, because it may result in a warrior not getting finished when it needed to have been (ie to stop a barb warrior), and also, Axemen are just better than spears, like it may well be better to have the warrior and upgrade it to an Axeman with cash.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Blake
And it's very worth noting that when you research hunting and already have copper, then ANY warriors you are training will switch to Spearmen! This is a bad thing, because it may result in a warrior not getting finished when it needed to have been (ie to stop a barb warrior).

Now where have I seen THAT happen?