Marathon Speed

[Patton91]

OK, so, I like the idea of a Marathon Speed, but there's something I don't understand.

When I tried playing a game on Marathon, on my first turn, it would've taken 30 turns to make a Worker, which is what I normally build first. So, by the time this was made, other Civs had expanded almost to my borders. So, I thought, maybe I didn't have enough Production points near my capitol, so I started a new game and looked for a square with a lot (say > 6-8) production squares/whatever you call them.

Result: Same thing. 30 turns for a worker.

My point is, what's the point of playing on Marathon if, even though time goes slower, it takes more time to build stuff? There's no essential difference, except that time in RL is being taken up, and that's pointless.

I want to know, is there a setting I can choose to make time go slower (for, say, a more "Epic" feel), but have production speed normal or faster (like in Civ III with the option for sped-up Production--sorry, can't remember exactly...)? This kind of option would greatly enhance the gameplay for me. Thanks for any help!

[Cyclotron]

Re: Marathon Speed

Originally posted by Patton91
My point is, what's the point of playing on Marathon if, even though time goes slower, it takes more time to build stuff? There's no essential difference, except that time in RL is being taken up, and that's pointless.

I find the difference is mainly military. Everything takes longer to build, but military units still move as fast, meaning that each "era" lasts longer; you can end up fighting several wars at a certain tech level before it comes time to upgrade your troops. If you have gotten tired of a unit nearing obsolescence before you've even gotten to use it much, marathon might be for you.

As for the option you want, I don't believe there is a way to play that out of the box, but I'm sure it can be modded - someone else here probably knows.

[Will9]

I'd say worker first is not a good idea. When you make workers, the city making it doesn't grow so your production is slow and it won't get any higher. I'm suprised by the AI's growth rate in this. A second city usually isn't founded by 30 turns in Marathon.

To answer your queston. You could mod that, but the change is isn't much. In Epic, everything is 1.5 times ass much as normal. In Marathon, everything is 3 times longer than normal except unit production is 2 times longer. The problem also wouldn't change anythting since the AI would be affected the same.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Will9
I'd say worker first is not a good idea.

I agree. I usually go with Warrior, Settler, Warrior, Worker, then have the next city repeat the process. Unless I've discovered Archery in the meantime, which I usually do, then it would be Archer, Settler, Archer, Worker. You need to give your cities a bit of time to grow first. Having a population of 2 or 3 makes a big difference in your production time of units that halt growth.

Also, if you start off with a Worker right away, quite often there'll be nothing for him to do since you won't have the techs yet to let him improve anything. Doing things this way, there's no way the other civs will be at my borders anytime soon. In fact it will probably be the other way around.

[joncnunn]

On Marathon, it takes only 2/3rds the build times to build units vs buildings compared to normal. I think that GL generation might also be only 2/3rds cost of normal.

The main difference is that travel times are a fraction of normal in Marathon compared to Normal.

The two combine to make Missonary builds for those you have the holy cities for virtual no brainers. (Provided there is a reasonable chance of success)

This two factors also combine to greatly increase the effective lifespan of your offensive military units before they get hopelessly outdated.

Also, it appears that certain puedorandom per turn event probabilities were not adjusted for the time scale, and so barbs spawn realtively faster and in addition Marathon games that reach the modern era report having a few instances of global warming while this is unheard of it normal speed games.

[Nacht]

Originally posted by Willem
Having a population of 2 or 3 makes a big difference in your production time of units that halt growth.

As long as those 2 or 3 pop are going to work unimproved tiles, basically adding one F/H to the production of a worker I would say no.

[Thedrin]

What difficulty level are you playing on? Are the AI getting free settlers at the start? Or by 'other Civs had expanded almost to my borders' do you mean that other civs have explored to your borders? If so, that's the point of marathon - you can move farther in less time than when playing quicker game speeds.

I do occasionally start with a worker first - particularly if I begin with agriculture and have a grain resource in my fat cross.

[VonSharma]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Willem


I agree. I usually go with Warrior, Settler, Warrior, Worker, then have the next city repeat the process.

QUOTE]

I don't know if the level you play makes a difference, but I could not support a second city and techs pumpin out a settler so soon (i usually play emperor or a Blake's monarch). I will build either a barracks or granary/monastery/temple while my population gets to about 3, and either finish it or start on warrior if barbs pop up but I have never had a problem being undefended for a long while. Tech wise, I'll make a bee line to one religion, then writing and alphabet. It's tricky whether to pump out a worker before settler, but that depends on the resources/techs you have.

All good points you guys made.

[Pandemoniak]

Am I the only one there to pop my capital to the max happiness before building my first settler ? (Mind you, the second, third and sometimes fourth comes right after...)

[Robert]

I like marathon games for MP games (long diplo games) but not for SP games. In MP diplogames marathon is cool because it gives more time for diplomacy, wars, using game mechanics, but for SP it's just a waste of time, imho.

[joncnunn]

Hum, that's very interesting in light that the stated purpose of Quick setting was for MP games.

Originally posted by CyberShy
I like marathon games for MP games (long diplo games) but not for SP games. In MP diplogames marathon is cool because it gives more time for diplomacy, wars, using game mechanics, but for SP it's just a waste of time, imho.

[Robert]

Originally posted by joncnunn
Hum, that's very interesting in light that the stated purpose of Quick setting was for MP games.

Our MP group doesn't consist of typical MP players

[couerdelion]

Worker first is usually a pretty strong move but I find myself now thinking that the settler first option might even be a decent move on marathon – as long as you can be certain that the settler is not going to be killed by animals. Given a decent number of tiles to improve in the opening city grid, I would still find it hard to think that the settler first option beats worker first. If a unit is thrown in earlier then I would make this a scout and build this as quickly as possible.

Still learning the Marathon game and I generally find the whole thing very slow and tedious.

[Dry]

Re: Marathon Speed

Originally posted by Patton91
So, I thought, maybe I didn't have enough Production points near my capitol, so I started a new game and looked for a square with a lot (say > 6-8) production squares/whatever you call them.

Result: Same thing. 30 turns for a worker.

My point is, what's the point of playing on Marathon if, even though time goes slower, it takes more time to build stuff? There's no essential difference, except that time in RL is being taken up, and that's pointless.

At the very start of the game (before any tile improvement), there is NO square that gives you more than 3 prod/food. The only way to increase your first turns prod is to build your city on a hilltop plain. You'll get your Worker in 24 turns (Settler in 40 instead of 50).

Now this being said, Marathon is the pace at which rush building becomes your only true friend.
If you're not a master at rush building, you'll become one.

My sequence
- When starting on hilltop-plain: settler, archer, worker, archer, setller,...
- When not on hilltop-plain: warrior, worker, archer, setller,...

[couerdelion]

Re: Re: Marathon Speed

Originally posted by Dry

At the very start of the game (before any tile improvement), there is NO square that gives you more than 3 prod/food. The only way to increase your first turns prod is to build your city on a hilltop plain. You'll get your Worker in 24 turns (Settler in 40 instead of 50).

Forest Deer provide 4 f/h

Imperialist city on Stone/Plains/Hill working Plains/Hill/Forest/Deer can build a settler by 3700 BC!!