when do chops yield hammers ?

[guermantes]

Oh crikie, there is always some unforeseen thing that thwarts my beginnings of forumlating a strategy.

I have learnt how to effectuate a CS slingshot and am well on the way towards managing efficient city specialisation, but today I ran into an unforseen event.

I have a city in which I started building the great library and to hit two birds with one stone I figured I would cut down some of the jungle in its radius to be rid of the pollutionj and to get hammers. So I put three workers to the task but at the end of the chopping they had just cleaned the land and I never got any hammers for it, wasting me some 12 worker turns since the jungle pollution was not a problem at this stage.

I thought that as soon as I can chop I will get hammers for doing so but apparently not. Do I need a special civic or a tech in order to get hammers from chopping?

(I am playing vanilla 1.61)

[fed1943]

You just get hammers from chopping forests, not jungles.

Best regards,

[guermantes]

ouch, how embarrassing not to know that...

thanks!

[rah]

Especially if you went out of your way to get Iron just so you could chop them.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

What exactly is the rationale for not getting hammers from logging jungle? Besides game mechanics, I mean. If rainforest=jungle, there's plenty of wood in rainforests....

[rah]

With jungles, there would be no real choice. ALWAYS chop (at least for most of the game)
With forests there's actually a choice since forests provide positive benefits and having a few around to make the mills is always nice.
So I can understand why you don't get hammers for jungles.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by rah
With jungles, there would be no real choice. ALWAYS chop (at least for most of the game)
With forests there's actually a choice since forests provide positive benefits and having a few around to make the mills is always nice.
So I can understand why you don't get hammers for jungles.

Game mechanics, in other words?

[Jaybe]

Rainforest does NOT equal Jungle. There are rainforests in the Pacific Northwest (states of Washington, Oregon), for example.

I think the rationale is the "stereotype" of jungle -- tropical jungle, trees that make poor lumber; and the belief that strong societies & economies do not prosper in jungles. Throw in some disease (e.g., malaria) for good measure, in addition to the health affects in the game.

Per the DVD Guns, Germs, and Steel, tropical jungle societies can more easily prosper with light population density -- villages, not cities.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Rainforest does NOT equal Jungle. There are rainforests in the Pacific Northwest (states of Washington, Oregon), for example.

I think the rationale is the "stereotype" of jungle -- tropical jungle, trees that make poor lumber; and the belief that strong societies & economies do not prosper in jungles. Throw in some disease (e.g., malaria) for good measure, in addition to the health affects in the game.

Per the DVD Guns, Germs, and Steel, tropical jungle societies can more easily prosper with light population density -- villages, not cities.

There are plenty of tropical woods that are in high demand. Moreover, vegetation in general grows a lot faster in the tropics, and logging statistics support that.

I agree that there is some stereotyping going on in Civ4... there's far too much "unusable" vegetation to be realistic.

[Jaybe]

There are mods (well, at least one) out there where jungle-chopping harvests a fraction of the hammers that forests do.

Envision jungle-chopping with as many hammers as forests. Now hear the complaints of players that jungle-based civs get too far ahead from chopping after a slow start.

Side note -- A major export of the tropics is charcoal: a major requirement for the production of steel.