What is the point of the Phalanx

[Solver]

Yes, but on the other hand, a Guerilla or a Woodsman promotion isn't that strong most of the time.

[Xorbon]

True, the usefulness of those two promotions is very dependent on the map that gets generated, and where your civ is located on that map.

Where I use those promotions the most is to defend an attacking stack during a city seige. If an enemy city has a forest or hill outside of it, placing one or more units with woodsman or guerrilla promotions with the attacking stack, and placing the stack on the forest or hill is better than the Combat I promotion. I also use it for exploratory units so that they can take refuge in forests or hills while healing from barbarian attacks.

Back to the topic of the phalanx: I haven't played as the Greeks yet, but it would seem to me their main benefit comes from the fact that they take less damage from each mounted unit that attacks them, and so have a better chance of surviving multiple attacks while defending. Any offensive benefit of their added strength is secondary.

[MontyMustDie]

An idea for a UU: a unit that is useful-ish in its own right, but which is really, really cheap to produce and matain - so that the real advantage lies in the possibility to overwhelm the opposition in sheer numbers?

[ben04]

Originally posted by Pinchak
Considering your citys are connected by roads (hopefully), I find the fast workers bonus to be null most of the time.

With proper planning you shouldn't need an extra movement point.

Now if by "fast" it ment they could build faster, THAT would make them one of the best UUs.

They need 1 turn less to build something as they can start the same turn they get there. Normal workers often need to rest a turn (hills for example).

This bonus is nothing on marathon, on fast it is worth gold and much more than a Praetorian as they don't go obsolete very quickly.

[Kuciwalker]

Krill asked me to post this:

In a stack that is mainly Axes, which is attacking archers (ie you lack iron) then unpromoted phalanxes are going to rip chariots and HA a new one if they attack. When you get to the city, those phalanxes can be promoted to city raider and they will have exactly the same odds as the axes attacking; pretty good odds, depending on cultural defence. The trick is to not promote the phalanxes because you don't need to for them to defend well.

My response is that this gives you an advantage in stack size at the cost of momentum.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by MontyMustDie
An idea for a UU: a unit that is useful-ish in its own right, but which is really, really cheap to produce and matain - so that the real advantage lies in the possibility to overwhelm the opposition in sheer numbers?

Like the Fanatic from Civ2

[snoopy369]

Fast Worker is actually quite effective in the early game; and that's really the only time it's useful [other than war-workers roading ahead of your stack]. It can move on and chop a forest on the same turn, which means much faster chops; if you start in a forest, you can easily chop a few wonders early on. That combined with doing the same thing on mines, means you need a few less workers than you otherwise would, which is always nice...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Fast Worker is actually quite effective in the early game; and that's really the only time it's useful [other than war-workers roading ahead of your stack]. It can move on and chop a forest on the same turn, which means much faster chops; if you start in a forest, you can easily chop a few wonders early on. That combined with doing the same thing on mines, means you need a few less workers than you otherwise would, which is always nice...

I can't figure out how to quantify the value of fast workers - obviously needing fewer workers over the course of the game saves me both hammers and coins. How many of each, I don't know. But a UU that is available right away and never is obsolete seems pretty powerful. And moving and working on the same turn saves a LOT of time in the long run.

I also love how enemy workers become much more dedicated when they change employers

[snoopy369]

It's mostly, to me, that Fast Workers let you start off the game with a bang. The better your start, the better you'll be in the game in general; and if you know how to chop yourself to an early game lead, Fast Workers let you do it that much more efficiently. Grab 3 fast workers and you can be chopping a forest a turn ... imagine what you could chop there

[Blake]

Here's my thoughts on UU's.

The Phalanx benefits from being a strength-enhanced UU which is also trait-enhanced. The free Combat 1 is very useful because it allows the Phalanx to easily pick up Formation. Normal Phalanx's, and formation spearmen, are both good against mounted units. But formation phalanx's are formidable!

The Phalanx also has the benefit of being equal to an axe against non-melee units (ie Archers). Since the Phalanx is strong against mounted units even without promotions it's possible to promote a Phalanx with City Raider and still have it fulfill it's usual duties, with a spearmen you really want to get combat/formation to help it win more reliably against Horse Archers while with Phalanx's you are flexible in promotions, this can also be used to justify getting more Phalanx's and more firmly gaining supremacy over enemy mounted units while still preserving your ability to take down non-mounted units. Normal spears are more of a one trick pony(slayer).


The Jaguar is basically a bad UU. It's not terrible, but it doesn't compare with...

The Gallic Warrior, the Gallic benefits from Synergy with Charismatic (and have you heard about the new BTS Celt leader? Aggressive AND Charismatic! ZOMGallicsOnCrack!). The free Guerrilla promotion + charismatic means that a barracks trained Gallic needs only win a single battle (vs anything) in order to pick up Guerrilla II and III, which are actually quite good promotions in the right context. Not only that, but the promotions will be retained when upgraded to Macemen and gunpowder units. Even treating the Gallic like a normal swordsmen, the free Guerrilla 1 is still useful because on a hill it lets the Gallic give Axemen/Shock Horse Archers the middle finger.
Additionally the Gallic can be trained with Copper alone, this means that if Celt gets copper, they can get out Gallics potentially as quickly as Monty can get his lame ass Jaguars out, there is no need to hook up iron (full speed Gallics requires river copper but wheel isn't much slower).

The Gallic is a very good UU because it's reliable - along with the Jaguar it's the only sword which (at least sometimes) isn't a gamble. That's quite a big deal when it comes to centering your strategy around the UU.

Side note: Brennus is my favorite leader. Displacing Alexander who was my old favorite leader. Both UU's are very fine.

[Pinchak]

But formation phalanx's are formidable!

Hehe, I almost always go for formation with the phals. Mounted enemys treat it like vampires treat garlic. If not alot of mounted, ill go shock to truly make it a jack of all trades unit.

Additionally the Gallic can be trained with Copper alone

Did not know that. Guess that is what I get for never playing as the Celts.

[Kuciwalker]

Krill again:

No, not at the cost of momentum; you have to build the spears to cover teh axes anyway, otherwise the stack gets shreded by chariots. the phalanxes that you build instead are increasing the stack size as well as improved defense.

[wodan11]

To the people dogging mounted units for early taking of cities, War Chariots are an exception.

Wodan

[Scylvendi]

Phalanx stinx. I think it's unbalancing to give Aggressive Civs awesome UUs though.

[Qwertqwert]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
The fast worker generally shaves 1 turn off projects simply because you can get there and start working a little bit earlier. This isn't very useful on marathon and epic settings, where 1 turn out of 15 or 20 isn't too great, but it can be cumulatively more impressive in faster games where shaving a turn off can be a significant advantage. 3 movement means that they can traverse 2 "rough terrain" spots, like forest, every turn, where the normal worker can only traverse one, essentially doubling their movement in rough terrain. Likewise, it's no Praetorian, but especially in normal and quick games it demonstrates its utility.

It shaves more time off on Epic and Marathon games. It works at 150% the speed of normal workers.