Does it pay to use the 2nd and 3rd Great Scientist to found multiple academies?

[damarcus]

I realized in my last game that you can found more than one academy by using the Great Scientist. Prior to this game, I always settled the GS in my science city, but now, I'm thinking it probably is better to found the 2nd academy at the 2nd best science city.

Does anyone else do this?

[MosesPresley]

Depending on how late in the game it is, I will often found multiple Academies. It also depends on how badly I need that tech the GS can lightbulb.

[Kuciwalker]

It's a simple calculation.

Is .5 * base science of 2nd-best city > best city modifiers * 6 (or 9)?

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
It's a simple calculation.

Is .5 * base science of 2nd-best city > best city modifiers * 6 (or 9)?

That's just a comparison with settling. The more I play this game, the more likely I am to use the scientist for lightbulbing or triggering a golden age.

p.s. You forgot the production

[Ming]

I used to use them to create more super scientists in my "science city"... Now I take a look and see if I have another good science city, and I'll place an academy there. It has to be doing really good before I would consider it.

I've rarely used them to lightbulb a science, since in most cases, it's usually a science that won't take me many turns to research.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Ming
I've rarely used them to lightbulb a science, since in most cases, it's usually a science that won't take me many turns to research.

Even with Representation and +200% science modifier, the settled GS only produces 18 (edit 27) beakers per turn.

Often a GS will generate something of the order of 2400 beakers towards a tech (ie 133 (edit 90ish) turns of the settled GS).

Now let's suppose that you can generate a GS every 20 turns and are also producing 400 bpt total in the civ. That 2400 beakers will take 6 turns for the first tech but the next GS will take 6 turns from another tech. Overall, a lightbulbiong tactic will speed you rapidly through the techs. The settling option will take a much longer period to pay off

p.s. You can always wait to lightbulb a more valuable tech (eg research paper to open Education)

[UnOrthOdOx]

I agree that later in the game lightbulbing is the way to go, but early on, is it better to academy a 2nd site or settle? There's little point to lightbulbing a 400 or 600 beaker tech IMO, and do you really want to hold onto them for 100 turns waiting for the lightbulbs to be more worthwhile?

As everything, it's situational. A bunch of early scientists settled in a city makes a great science city. But if you have a couple cities that are going to be cranking a ton of cottages, might as well academy them all, it'll pay off later.

[couerdelion]

Since Philo opens up quite easily I tend to get this available for a second GS which allows Pacifism. The extra GPP will usually pay off well enough and both COL and Mathematics are key Classical techs.

For bonus, you pick up a shiny new religion.

I often use the first GS for this.

By the time that the GS start arriving, the Renaissance techs should be near enough for the wait to be worthwhile.

[rah]

Most of the games I play now are MP so the focus is just a bit different. If the lightbulbed tech is not on the direct path to where I'm going, After the first one (academy) I'll usually settle it early. Getting cats or macemen a couple turns early can sometimes be the difference of surviving or not.
Late in the game it's either save for golden age or pop whatever science they'll offer.

Occasionally if I have a real great second science city early, I'll create a second academy, but normally the only extra academies that I get are those that I capture.

What I'd like to know is you capture these wonderful science/trade cities that have like two hammers yet, there are a lot of building. Not enough turns have passed for all of them to be built with 2 hammers. (even at reduced building rates for the upper levels)
How do they do it?

[Krill]

Most of that stuff is probably slaved and chopped.

[rah]

I would think that but there cities are still twice the size.

[MasterDave]

Originally posted by rah
Most of the games I play now are MP so the focus is just a bit different. If the lightbulbed tech is not on the direct path to where I'm going, After the first one (academy) I'll usually settle it early. Getting cats or macemen a couple turns early can sometimes be the difference of surviving or not.
Late in the game it's either save for golden age or pop whatever science they'll offer.

Occasionally if I have a real great second science city early, I'll create a second academy, but normally the only extra academies that I get are those that I capture.

What I'd like to know is you capture these wonderful science/trade cities that have like two hammers yet, there are a lot of building. Not enough turns have passed for all of them to be built with 2 hammers. (even at reduced building rates for the upper levels)
How do they do it?

Bu-duh-duh-duh-doo Crack that Whip!!

Whip it good!!

[Krill]

Size doesn't matter as much as the whereabouts of teh food. Also, you vcan slave early on all the buildings you need then grow massive after you have the granary lib, bank, and market etc

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

My capital usually gets the Great Library, Oxford U., and every science improvement I can manage as soon as I can manage them. By contrast, my second-best science city is sometimes lucky to produce 100 beakers per turn after all adjustments. So an Academy isn't generally worth it.

If I could build multiple Academies in my capital... different story.

[nbarclay]

Trying to compare the value of settling a great scientist in a city with the value of a second academy is more complex than it appears at first glance. The multiplier for settling a great scientist in a city grows over time as a city builds additional improvements that boost its science multiplier. But the value of an academy grows as a city works more income-producing tiles, cottage-based tile improvements grow, trade routes become more numerous and valuable, Printing Press makes villages and towns more valuable, and Free Speech (if adopted) boosts the value of towns. Also note that the obsolescence of certain buildings and wonders, or changes to civics that produce less wealth, can have a negative impact on the value of settling a scientist or the value of an academy. So any comparison between the value of settling a great scientist and the value of building an academy needs to consider both the current situation and how the situation will change over time. My general view is that unless the next-best science city is pretty lousy, an academy is worth more than settling a scientist.

Also note that academies produce four culture. So in trying to pursue a cultural victory, an academy in the city that is on the path to being third to reach Legendary culture can be a useful thing completely independent of its effect on science. There may also be situations where it makes sense to position an academy in a location that is slightly less than optimal from a purely scientific perspective in order to gain an advantage in a cultural struggle with a neighboring rival city.