Is there a reason friendly civs won't trade techs?

[InThane]

I'm playing a continental game as Victoria. There were two neighbors on my continent, Wang Kon (Korea) and Brennus (Celts). I went scientific, and ignored religion, while Wang Kon founded a couple. Brennus ended up sandwiched between us, an alliance was formed, and Brennus was no more. I had a similar religion, plus peace bonuses, plus agreement bonuses, a whole host of things. Wang Kon loved me. I think my total was around +12 or +13.

Now, because we focused on significantly different areas, by the time I developed Alphabet, there were significant trades that could be made...

...but every single tech was red. What was up with that? It wasn't until around Astronomy that Wang Kon finally lightened up and started being lightly interested in trades - and even then, they were highly unfavorable ones, often wanting a total tech value of 2x or 3x of the offered tech for the trade. Wang Kon was slightly ahead of me in points (I was 3rd, he was 1st) so that might have had something to do with it, but I just don't know.

Any thoughts? This is Warlords 2.08, no other patching, Prince level IIRC.

[rah]

What type of techs were red. If they're techs that open wonders that he's working on, it's usually a no go. Or for new religions, or even some of the military techs.
I usually see the offers in the 66 to 80% range.

[InThane]

If it had been that, I would completely understand. But we're talking every single tech he had from the time I invented Alphabet up until Astronomy, when he couldn't fall over himself fast enough to get his hands on it - before that, every couple of turns I would look at the trade screen and every single tech he had would be red. Once I got my hands on the Caravel tech, I was able to start some cross-ocean trading with the other civs, but even then he still stayed locked off.

[couerdelion]

Hover your mouse over each tech and you will get his reason why.

"We don't want to trade this yet" means that he probably thinks he has a monopoly on that tech.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by couerdelion
"We don't want to trade this yet" means that he probably thinks he has a monopoly on that tech.

So this is coded? If an AI likely 'thinks' it has the first and only copy of 'Amateur Drama for Dummies' then it won't even entertain the notion of sharing, despite there being no great strategic disadvantage in lending out the book? Techs with powerful units, civics or Wonders I can understand, but when it's something that doesn't really do the second place guy much good this puzzle vexes me too.

[Quillan]

I usually see one of four messages in those tooltips for why they don't want to trade:

1) "We don't want to start trading this just yet" - either they just developed it, or they think they are the only ones who have it. Either way they don't yet want to spread it around.

2) "We just don't like you enough" - self explanatory.

3) "We'd rather win the game, thank you very much" - shows up with critical space techs in the late game.

4) "We will never trade with you, our worst enemy!" - also should be self explanatory.

[couerdelion]

Also

"We fear you are becoming too advanced" - You've already received too many techs in trade

"We have our reasons" - We are currently building the wonder and would rather not have to race to it.

[DrSpike]

Friendly overrides WFYABTA and renders 2) and 4) moot. 1) and the one Couerdelion added based on wonders are the main reasons for what the OP describes. The leader is usually a factor too as some leaders (Mansa is textbook case) are trade whores and some aren't.

[AshenPlanet]

.

How much a civ will want for a tech also depends on where you are in the rankings.
If you are 1 or 2 in tech rankings, they'll be reluctant to trade techs with you, and if they do, they'll want much more for them.

If you spent more time fighting than researching, then it'll be easier and cheaper to get techs from others.

Neglecting all else to research as fast as you can doesn't really net you as big an advantage as you'd hope tech-wise, since others will eventually stop trading with you or ask for the moon for any tech.
Neglecting research for infrastructure or war doesn't hurt you as much as you'd think, since others will trade easily and cheaply till your about 3rd in the tech rankings.

It's balancing that makes sense, because I do it also as a player.
Certain civs, like tokugawa, are just so pathetic, that you know they'll never win any game.
Certain other civs, always seem to do better than the others.
I always try to trade techs to the crappier civs and keep them away from the better civs.
When 1-2 civs are breaking away from the pack and flying up the research tree, I'll avoid trading anything to them, and perhaps declare war on one of them if feasible.

.

[MrWhereItsAt]

I recently, inspired by Vel's mammoth tutorial thread, did the Oracle CS leap tactic, and then hoped to backfill Fishing, Masonry etc, and thought I should have no problem getting some of these ultra-basic techs from AI civs by trading a tech like Alphabet or Maths for a couple at a time. Imagine my annoyance when I had to research the lot of them myself due to civs I was on great terms with saying "We don't want to start trading this just yet". By the time I caught up, ironically my tech lead was cut to almost nothing. Mind you, the CS tactic with Warlords took a bit more than it did for Vel's case.

[Dis]

Originally posted by couerdelion
Hover your mouse over each tech and you will get his reason why.

"We don't want to trade this yet" means that he probably thinks he has a monopoly on that tech.

are you serious? those options have mouse overs? It's amazing when you still learn simple things even after playing the game all this time.

[DrSpike]

On your next game mouse over everything. I'm sure you'll be rewarded.

[joncnunn]

You left out "We have Our Reasons", which means the AI is building a Global Wonder that has it as a prereq and doesn't want to be beat out.

On the "We don't want to start trading this just yet", I found that many of the civs actually don't start trading until 2 other civs know to it have the tech. It seems realated to how agressive the civ is. There's a couple of extremely agressive civs that you'll always get this message until it knows 3 other civs have the tech in question.

Originally posted by Quillan
I usually see one of four messages in those tooltips for why they don't want to trade:

1) "We don't want to start trading this just yet" - either they just developed it, or they think they are the only ones who have it. Either way they don't yet want to spread it around.

2) "We just don't like you enough" - self explanatory.

3) "We'd rather win the game, thank you very much" - shows up with critical space techs in the late game.

4) "We will never trade with you, our worst enemy!" - also should be self explanatory.

[Quillan]

I don't recall seeing "We have our reasons", although Courdelion mentioned it as well. I tend not to do a lot of tech trading late in the game, though, so I might have just missed it. Usually sometime around Liberalism/Nationalism the world gets stratified for me, there are the advanced nations who all are high in research capability, none of whom are willing to trade with me, and those who are lagging hopelessly behind, none of whom have anything worth trading for.

[DrSpike]

We have our reasons happens every game for me. You can usually notice it for dead end techs you wont prioritise, where there is a crappy wonder unlocked.