Always beaten by the AI research. HELP!!!

[kyuss]

Hi,

I'm playing in Prince, marathon, huge size with low level sea, archipielago and sneaky continents. Huayna Capac is my leader of choice as I like to bulid as many wonders I can.

My research path is hinduism, masonry, hunting, archery, mining, bronze working, writing, fishing and alphabet (aprox.)

I have the pyramids, Oracle (monarchy) and building the great library.

By the time I get alphabet I am the last one in techs researched, and power, but one of the first in culture.

I'm planning to attack my neighbours but all of them has feudalism... How can they do it SOOOO FAST??????????

Please any hint, clue, or whatever.

[fed1943]

Do not build all Wonders you can, just the ones fit your goal.

Oracle for monarchy looks a poor choice.

Research path depends a lot on map ( long delay to fishing in

archipelago?).

Best regards,

[MJW]

Always build the Oracle.
Attack early, in the late game or never. Attacking midgame is always a mistake.
There are many more rules like this.

[kyuss]

What is the best tradeoff foe the oracle? I wanted metal casting, but it didn't appear in the choices.

Assigning scientists is useful?

thanks

[kyuss]

I always build pyrmaids, and second chices are oracle and great wall.

Reading posts i have noticed the importance of cottages...

[Magiel]

Give this thread a read: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=148226

It really helped my game, and no doubt countless others' as well.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by MJW
Always build the Oracle.
Attack early, in the late game or never. Attacking midgame is always a mistake.
There are many more rules like this.

Not sure I agree with either of these although it is harder to disagree with the first statement since the Oracle is almost always a strong build.

The reason why you cannot get Metal Casting is that you don't have both Bronze Working or Pottery.

As for always building the Pyramids, this is very dependent on circumstances. It's such a big build that you probably only build it if you start with stone.

I notice that you don't seem to be researching Pottery, Agriculture, Animal Husbandry in your list (though need these (or Priesthood) to get Writing. These are usually very important early techs to get. You may be falling back in research simply because you don't have any cottages built early enough.

As for scientists, if you have Pyramids, you can run representation so your scientists will be very powerful. I do then wonder why you are interested in Monarchy though since it doesn't give you anything much if you already have the Pyramids.

[Arrian]

You could try the Oracle civil service slingshot (requires that you research code of laws AND mathematics before completing the oracle), but that's a highly specialized strategy.

One thing I see that is missing from your early tech path is pottery. That's a mistake, IMO.

First off, pottery allows cottages, which are a good basis for your economy, particularly with a financial civ. Second, it allows granaries, or in this case terraces, which rock in more ways than one. You want to build those. I'll often make that my first build in each city when playing the inca.

Monarchy makes little sense if you have the pyramids. If you have a bunch of wines tiles... ok. Once you need the wine, anyway.

I would probably skip hunting & archery... hunting is fine if you have nearby resources that require camps to use. Archer is ok and all, but especially as the inca I'd like to see if I could get horses or copper first (so AH, BW). Your Quecha will hold up against barb archers - spam a bunch of them and get them up on hills around your lands to clear the fog. BW also has the benifit of allowing slavery. The whip can be powerful... there are some really good posts from Blake about just how powerful it can be. I've come to rely on it in the early game. Once axes show up you're in trouble if you have neither copper nor horses, I'll admit. By then hunting->archery should be fairly fast. Granted, I don't play marathon (I've done it once or twice), so I may be underestimating the barb threat.

Metal Casting is a very yummy tech for an IND civ like the Inca. Using the Oracle for that would be a good choice (BW req).

Are you mixing in some expansion with your wonder building? I'm a wonder fiend too, and I also play on Prince... but you can't let it prevent you from dealing with basic expansion.

Masonry... I personally only get it once I'm ready to:

a) improve a marble or stone tile
b) try to build the Great Lighthouse
c) go for construction

I typically ignore the Pyramids if I don't have stone. They're good, but they're not THAT good.

So to review:

I'd suggest dropping hunting & archery, prioritizing pottery and bronzeworking. Once you have pottery, terraces are key builds for your cities. Cottages are key terrain improvements. Remember that you're financial. Cottage on a river tile = 3 commerce/turn (1 from river, 1 from cottage, 1 from FIN trait = 3). One of the things I struggled with most when I first started playing CIV was working enough cottages. I tended to overvalue production (mined hills). Production is indeed important, but so is your economy. Finding the right balance is very important.

If you are going to build the pyramids (and think you'll get it), don't bother with Monarchy.

Go for metal casting from the Oracle if you don't want to try/don't think you can pull off the CS sling.

Consider animal husbandry (obviously if you have cows/pigs/sheep). It will reveal horses (chariots are really powerful early game units) and is a pathway to writing.

Build a good number of quechas... these will help with barbs and also are potentially useful for nailing AI settler teams, which tend to be escorted by archers. Be

-Arrian

[Arrian]

The alternative to running a cottage economy is the specialist economy (SE). I'm not very good at that, but I can sketch out the basics for you.

The SE works best with:

1) lotsa food
2) the pyramids (representation)
3) terrain that lacks rivers

The first two are fairly obvious. In order to run specialists, you need excess food. That's easy enough. Prime specialist cities are often coastal cities with multiple seafood resources or the occasional inland city that is blessed with a 3 or more food specials and fairly flat land (hills and such are good too, but then the city is more suited to become a production powerhouse).

The 'mids are there for representation. +3 beakers per specialist... if you're basing your economy largely on specialists, that's pretty important.

Finally, lack of rivers... rivers boost commerce in the tiles that border them (non-forest). Cottaging those tiles will give you more commerce, earlier. If you don't have those tiles... well, perhaps a specialist economy is better for you. A cottage economy could still work, but would take longer to really kick in (cottages on plain old grassland are pretty pitiful until they grow), and the early game is key.

Obviously the SE also means more great people, faster. What it will impair, though, is production. If you're a wonder fiend, that's a problem unless you get a string of GEs (which may actually be bad).

Another thing I forgot to mention, regarding great people. I prioritize two great people types in the early game:

1) prophet for shrine
2) scientist for academy in my capital.

Not necessarily in that order. Building library and running two scientists until you get a GS can be a worthwhile early game investment. Sometimes I do that pre-prophet (particularly when I build the Oracle in my 2nd city). Sometimes not. Sometimes I don't get a GS until after I complete the Great Library... which is a tad late.

-Arrian

[MJW]

My 'always' comments assume you always use all the cheap and overpowered ideas. Like rushing wonders using overflow and the infamous two-pop whip trick. If you don't use these tricks than Civ4 is much more blanced; but it makes all comptive games pointless.

For example the two-pop whip trick makes early rushing overpowered. Thus if you can attack successful in the middle game you can attack even better in the early game. On low levels building the orcale is a good idea because the AI does not beeline to the tech and does not build wonders right. On high levels you can not get to it anyway. There is a very thin middle ground where building it guts your econ. and building the orcale is an errror but Prince is not a high level.

[kyuss]

Wow! I never tried to use specialists before, cottages were never a priority for me... Unitl alphabet I use to stay in a good positios but after that, the AI began to share techs and leave me in the stone age.

The key is use the specialists (scientists above all) to get techs earlier and a GS eventually to build an academy. The problem is when the AI begin to share techs, I do it too, but in some point they begin to be more advanced than me, so I can't trade any tech, and here begins my decay...

The post from velociryx is outstading I am learning a lot...

thanks guys

[couerdelion]

Here’s something I wrote a short while back about Huayna – I assume you’re playing on Warlords.

In short, I would say that Pyramids is probably an expensive diversion for him. Huayna really wants to get moving right from the word go. He probably wants to grab a religion first and Stonehenge may be a good strategy from him also – since this will get him a religion and get working on a prophet for the shrine. Remember though to spend the time to get the religion working on maximising commerce/science.

With the industrious trait I’d be more tempted to use the Oracle to get Metal Casting but there is no immediate rush for this. In the period before Priesthood, I think you should focus towards Pottery (for Terrace and cottages) and BronzeWorking(for pop and chop). Do make sure also not leave out any important worker techs if you have those resources to develop.

As for defence, archers are nearly obsolete units for you. Until rival civs become a threat, you only need to fear the impending barbarian axemen.

Having looked at things a little more closely, I think Huayna Capac is a very interest case to look at but I think it needs to be recognised just how important the Ancient Era is to him and how flexible he can be in dealing with it.

These are just some of his options

1) Religion

Starting with Mysticism he can go for one of the early religions. At higher levels the happiness bonus from this will be important though, naturally, it’s harder to get religion this way

2) Wonders

With the Industrious trait he can take a serious look at some of the early wonders netting him some early GPs. Specifically, with Mysticism he can consider Stonehenge as a cheap way of getting the Prophet to build a shrine for the religion. The combined religion/henge strategy will also make him semi-creative and the capital will be a cultural powerhouse forever perhaps even netting you a couple of free early cities from cultural assimilation.

Other wonders will work also and if resources are there are worth a punt. Don’t forget also that with a +150% bonus, a long-shot wonder can also be a cheap way of generating cash.

3) Barb killer/Ultra early rush

Huayna still has his Inca Warriors and with their bonus against archer units are resistant to barb attacks and can mount a credible early rush without copper. Note, however that this is a different strategy to the two above and it will be hard to combine the two

4) Go for gold/culture

Huayna is two techs away from his Unique Building which gives an extra culture boost to cities. This tech also gives cottages which the financial trait just loves.

Overall, HC is a fun civ to play with and has lots of options. I think he is probably the one civ whose ancient era is more important than that for any other civ and I would not play him like Cathy in vanilla CIV. My default would be to go for religion and probably add on the Stonehenge wonder (Polytheism/Mining/Bronze) but of course this would depend a lot on terrain.

[kyuss]

I post this guide in doc format if you want to have it in paper, like a template in your desk, in your bed or when you will be in the bus boring looking the cars passing by...

I hope it will serve you as it did it to me.

Salute velociryx!

[fed1943]

I feel terraces almost give this Leader a third trait (Creative).

Best regards,

[Mies78]

Hello,

Talking about techs from the Oracle..., what do people think of choosing theology?

I mean you can start building bad ass troops way before anybody else.

Cheers