Wonder discussion thread

[AshenPlanet]

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The benefit of every building or troop exceeds it's cost, not just the great library.
If not, why ever build it?

In certain conditions, a library or bank can far outshine the 3.4:1 golden hoop you've set for great library.
It all depends on what you need at the time.

I'm not disputing that great library is good, it is one of the better world wonders.
I don't think statue of liberty is that good though.
In fact, SoL is so expensive compared to other wonders of it's time, that I almost never build it, unless I'm fooling around on a lower difficulty trying to build every wonder I can.
The benefit vs cost ratio on that is pretty slim.

I also almost never build 3 gorges dam.
Before you can go from assembly line to plastics, you need electricity, combustion, industrialism, and all their associated pre-requisites, which, unless you delayed learning assembly line, could put hundreds of years between assembly and plastics.
If you rush to assembly, you can even get it before democracy or scientific method.
In general, all 3 gorges ever gives me is +2 health in my mainland cities, which is nice, but considering that ecology comes right after plastics, and ecology erases all your health problems in all your cities, 3 gorges is really not a big deal.

Kremlin is a big deal for everybody, and I think it gives the biggest benefit of all the world wonders in a bonus that you can get in no other way.
Kremlin wholeheartedly gets my vote for favourite wonder.

For philosophicals though, pyramids is god.
Representation, caste system, mercantalism, pacifism is your holy grail, and anything and everything that can get you there faster can win you that game.
Other stuff like parthenon or sistine chapel are also great for philosophicals, but not as game-breaking as an early pyramids.

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[Blake]

I'm going to agree that The Great Library is the wonder most worth going out of your way for. It's probably worth heading to if you have either Marble or the Pyramids, otherwise I wouldn't bother.
There's nearly no other wonder I'd actually go out of my way for.

Generally I say only build wonders you have the booster resource for, but there are some exceptions:
The Stonehenge and Oracle both come too early for boosters to matter much, get them if you have a production strong capital.
The Great Lighthouse has no booster resource, it's slightly easier for Organized (cheap lighthouse) and Industrious to get. Basically get it if you have a production strong city and most your cities will be coastal. It KICKS ASS on archi maps and in some cases is the most powerful wonder in the game.
The Colossus is very cheap and easy to build with Copper and it gives a good payoff with even a modest amount of coast or lake. If you are ind you don't need copper - you get the cheap forge and by then you have a +75% bonus to building the thing, so go ahead even without copper.

The wonder I may well be most likely to build is the Hanging Gardens, that's because it's on an essential tech and the AI is slow to get it. It has several small advantages but they add up. These are:
1) It boosts population, whipping this population will probably provide more hammers than it cost to build. It's a way to turn centralized production in a mature city into a boost in development for all other cities, a very nice deal.
2) The +1 Health does often help out.
3) Engineer points are always welcome.

Still I don't tend to build the Hanging Gardens unless I have stone, are ind, or have dire need for that health (great plains is a kind of map which is low health high production where you might get the HG regardless)

Once upon a time I used to like the Kremlin, now I'm not so fussed about it. One reason is the tech it comes on: Communism s great, but why is communism great? It lets you run State Property, which by boosting workshops and watermills means you can largely get away without rushbuying/whipping much. Basically either State Property will be super useful, or the Kremlin will be super useful, but it's difficult to use both to full effect (with a sprawling cottage rich empire though both can be very useful).

The most overpowered wonder in the game is probably the Pyramids, the main problem is the extreme opportunity cost of building the thing, even with stone. However if there's any wonder I like to STEAL it's the Pyramids, Hereditary rule is good enough that you don't need representation, but the ability to run POLICE STATE long before fascism makes a "Steel Domination" that much easier. Usually acquiring the Pyramids for Police State will be part of my domination plans.

My final conclusion on wonders is that it's easier to win building "Too few" wonders than "Too many", wonders are fairly close to being balanced WHEN boosted by a resource, when not being boosted it's quite likely the opportunity cost will be too great. While smart use of wonders is exceedingly powerful, it's more important to understand winning without any wonders...

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by AshenPlanet
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The benefit of every building or troop exceeds it's cost, not just the great library.
If not, why ever build it?

In certain conditions, a library or bank can far outshine the 3.4:1 golden hoop you've set for great library.
It all depends on what you need at the time.

To answer your first question, why indeed? Not everything in this game is equal. Some even provide a negative benefit (work boat with no resource to build, scout with no land to explore).

Btw A GOOD benefit:cost ratio is 1:1. This basically means that you are just about meeting your “growth” target with this build.

To give you an example, a library in a city producing 40 commerce per turn allocated to science will give you a 3.4 to 1 ratio (if we ignore the culture and the ability to appoint specialists). You don’t often have many of those cities and, where you do, probably ought to have already built a library.

I'll give you the benefit cost ratio on SoL some time later. Last time it was around