Starting strategies - Deling with conflicting directions

[couerdelion]

I’ve been thinking a little about some of the reason where the early game can go wrong and one of the problems I think may be a confused strategic objective. One obvious case where this emerges is in tech selection where different traits, starting techs and starting position may give a number of different paths which we have difficulty comparing.

Here is a situation from a very recent game where I decided it was high time to move up a level. I selected Augustus as an “easy” leader and deliberately did not want to start on the coast so that he has to do a little research before he can unlock the food potential of the land. Obviously ironworking is a clear objective for the Romans but probably not something he wants to start with. Wheel, Agro, Animals etc are just too valuable to be left hanging.

The generic plan for Augustus is expansion and he therefore needs techs which can use what he gets. But his techs very much depend on what he starts with. So onto the start scenario

After finding a non-coastal start (regenerating the map), I used the warrior move to check around a little and decided to move onto a plains hill before settling. I already new that this site would have fresh water (from a lake), a few grassland river tiles (one of which contained cattle), an oasis and a desert gold hill. On moving to the hill, I also found that I had access to marble in the fat cross so there will need to be a few farms about for growth. So there’s not a lot for a worker to do just yet while a warrior would allow us to double our exploration to find good city sites.

There’s actually not much to research that would immediately benefit us since we really need animal husbandry and that is two tech aware. Basically we want to research techs which give a workers things to do, allow us to whip and chop, find strategic resources. In fact we want almost everything outside the religious branch of the tech tree. But here there is no obvious order.

To add a little more confusion, our warrior pops a tribal village and shares the secrets of Mysticism. Immediately, the possibility opens up for an early religion and with a lake and an oasis, there’s some fair chance of grabbing one of them.

So what do you think should be done with this.

[Swiss Pauli]

A screenshot would really help here, but with Marble and an Oasis, Judaism becomes a reasonable play. The call on 'Poly or worker tech first' is one where I'd choose worker techs, given that you must be a couple of turns behind, if there SPI AI out there learning Poly.

[Arrian]

Founded on plains hill with gold hill, marble, river tiles, grassland cows, oasis... a free tech from a hut? That's pretty good. What level? You might have a shot at the CS sling.

-Arrian

[DrSpike]

Screenshot.

[Blake]

Hi, in this case I think it's fairly obvious - research Polytheism, Masonry, The Wheel, Priesthood. Build the Oracle and pick up something.

The reason to take this direction is that Animal Husbandry is quite far away and you have an Oasis as a pre-improved tile. Oracle will be nice and cheap with the Marble.

Of course once you have the Marble hooked up you really want to get Agriculture then Animal Husbandry. Writing would also be high priority, both to unlock Code of Laws and cheap libraries.

[couerdelion]

I think the answers here demonstrate that this is not typical play for Augustus. The tactics are purely driven by the tiles (and the free tech)

It’s emperor level and I think CS is still manageable here – pre-patch I don’t have to worry about Mathematics. It does mean that I am playing against a very stupid AI but I also seem to recall someone saying that CRE get half price Libraries which I believe may imbalance the traits too much now. So there it is, my private whinge over, here is a very exclusive style of screenshot

XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX xXXXXXXx XXXXX -----Desert------- ---Oasis-----
Plains Marble Plains Hill City- -----Plains-------- Gold Desert Hill
Grass Forest ---Plains-- Grass -----Lake-------- XXXXXXXXXXx
XXXXXXXXXXX --Grass-- Cows -Plains Forest- XXXXXXXXXXX

X’s represent tiles that I do not remember. The river skirts along the south west boundary giving four or five tiles some commerce.

Now Oracle did not occur to me but that may simply be because I tend to equate it too much with slings. It could of course sling to Iron, Code of Law or Metal Casting and since it only costs 75 hammers with Marble any of these give a good return on investment. But why would I prefer Oracle over something like Temple of Artemis – which would seem to suit this situation if I actually get the religion. It gives me a very early GP with the only downside being that I might get a GM – which is either used as a sling or simply settled in the capital (holy city) and gives the food that the city craves.

I think Augustus’ biggest gripe with his start is that he is a little distant from Animal Husbandry (that’s a general problem that he shares with a number of civs)

Here’s actually what I did

Stopped researching Hunting – he should never have started and switched to Poly – and built warrior while growing. I might have continued to size 2 or 3 like this – I don’t remember exactly. Even unimproved, the oasis, cows and lake are nice starter tiles and from size 4 a worker can easily be whipped if I can get Bronze.

This basically drove the techs of Wheel and Bronze as the next on the list (Hunting was left in limbo) so the later religious path would be deferred a little. After these I think Masonry/Agro/Animals might make some sense and if the objective is to go for one of the Poly wonders, there is no need to go for Priesthood. With +2 happy (religion and gold) and relatively poor food, I am in no desperate hurry for temples.

I’m still undecided about the right way to play this one but interested to see that Blake finds the path as obvious. It still doesn’t look obvious to me because I can see what I would use the Oracle for. I certainly highlight to problem of where your current information can lead you to very different tactical choices.

[Blake]

Thing is with the Oracle you get A LOT of beakers for very few hammers (and for Organized I think CoL is a natural choice). Also with the Oasis, and the improved marble, you have a fair amount of extra commerce (~50% more than a very poor commerce start), that means you can definitely afford to research some "extra techs".

Wonders other than the Oracle are QUITE a bit more expensive in terms of hammers - they'll slow down your expansion and take A LOT longer to get a return on investment (the Oracle is pretty much instant). The oracle is also the cheapest way to get +2 gpp and that prophet for a shrine - then with Org.Rel (essential for org leader) you can quickly spread around religion and mitigate expenses with courthouses. It's very nice.

The correct time to train the Worker is at size 2, or when it'll pop out on the same turn that Masonry completes.

[couerdelion]

Just a minor point is the question of the immediate return on investment for the Oracle. Although you get the tech now, the true value of the tech may not be as much as the amount of beakers that it would have cost you since it may have relatively little value for you now. Although the courthouses may be cheap, they don’t really start becoming important until you have several cities about and this strategy seems to be more of a single city completion of Oracle circa 1500 BC.

I would however caveat this because CoL can give some immediate return if we choose to slip straight to Alphabet and get some good value from CoL as a trading tech – one of the easiest to trade about IME

[Blake]

Even quite heavily discounting the beakers of a mid-level tech like CoL - like say down to 200b, it's still a pretty good deal for the low hammer cost of the Oracle.

And there is the religion and the prophet points - for an organized leader this is very nice. Not quite so much for Augustus since he's creative - but with the mysticism pop...