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Playing Brennus: Some thoughts on Strategy

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  • Playing Brennus: Some thoughts on Strategy

    Traits: Spiritual/Charismatic
    Techs: Hunting/Mysticism
    Unique Unit: Gallic Warrior (basically a swordsman with Guerilla promotion)
    Unique Building: Dun (replaces walls and gives free Guerilla promotion)

    The traits are, in my view, the strongest feature of Brennus. Brennus has the licence to grow larger cities because he effectively starts with +2 happiness (+1 from trait and +1 with a monument). We also see that he has Mysticism so has a head-start on an early religion for another +2 happiness (State Religion and cheap Temples). Grabbing all those bonuses, and perhaps a couple of happy resources, is a licence to whip freely.

    To whip effectively, we need a few things. First, a source of food is needed for growth. With the free Hunting tech, the remaining three food techs are accessible from the start. Second we need Bronze-Working. Finally, we need Granaries and this also takes us via the Wheel which will help us to link up all those food resources that we might need to avoid losses from health problems.

    Although Brennus has many starting options, his opening play is likely to be stronger if we try for an early religion (and Polytheism seems to be the typical choice). This may, in turn influence the unit build options since two strong build options become less viable

    1) A scout for rapid exploration and hut-popping would be normally be a good build but these need to be built quickly which means maximising production, normally at the expense of growth and commerce.
    2) A worker for tile development works if there is something to build. Apart from deer, fur and ivory, our worker would have very little to do for awhile so we might as well build something else and allow our city to start growing. Also, allowing the city to grow sometimes brings in extra commerce to help the race to found the religion.

    Note that these examples do not always hold true. For example, if we found on plains wine by a river (2/2/2 city tile) and can work a forested plains spice (1/2/1) tile we can build a scout quickly and have the commerce to hurry for our religion. Similarly, if our scout pops a hut giving us a worker tech and we have sufficient commerce to give a good chance of a religion then a worker first may also be a strong play.

    But these are exceptions. In general you will want to work commerce tiles and this will mean growth with low production. Personally, I would take advantage of the other start builds we have, either the monument or perhaps even Stonehenge.

    So we get a religion and we are now part way though a building Stonehenge, it’s time to think about ways in which we will improving the land. If we have a few 3f tiles around then the next choice seems to be made for us. Research mining and bronze-working while growing (ie stay on our existing build). We can grow to size 4 so there would be more commerce tiles available and 4 is a critical size because we can whip a worker the minute we acquire bronze and use him to chop Stonehenge to completion.

    While the worker does this, we need to find things for him to do so a food tech or wheel should be next on the list. In fact, it is quite possible that we will want masonry too and, if we managed to get a religion, we’ll also want meditation (for monastery), priesthood (for temple and/or Oracle) and monotheism (for a nice civic – it costs us nothing to switch).

    It is quite possible that Brennus may want to acquire all of the Ancient techs before thinking of going into the Classical Era. If we assume that he acquired a religion and Stonehenge, and maybe also one happy resource then on something like Emperor level he will be able to grow cities to size 8 which gives you every excuse to launch into the next stage.

    1) Your neighbours have some nice sites and are crowding in – use your population to whip out an army and take those cities. Don’t worry too much about unhappiness because you have all the bonuses and can still work it off building more workers to help with your new cities while still at size 6+
    2) You are losing ground in technology – research Code of Laws, switch to Caste System and use one food rich city as a GP pump. 5 scientists = 15 GPP gives you a GS in 14 turns (assuming your first was a Prophet from the shrine). Research Mathematics before using the GS to Lightbulb Philosophy and run Pacifism for another three GS over the next 40 turns.

    Now something else about the Charismatic trait – we’ve already used the happiness benefits it gives and I’m sure everyone knows of how the promotion bonus works. But there is a side benefit from this bonus. A unit will get to experience 10 just fighting barbarians. It then needs another 3 XP to reach level three. So with just one combat against an AI you can get a unit with enough experience to allow you to build Heroic Epic. Normal leaders often have to wait for a Great General before they can build this.

    Finally let’s talk of the UU and UB which look to be pretty ordinary. Well there are actually but let’s not let this deter us from finding a use for them.

    First the Gallic Warrior. In some situation, he makes a very useful raider and pillager. Using a Guerilla II promotion, a line of hills makes a perfect route to strike deep into enemy territory, threaten strategic resources or simply setting up a diversion to draw the main enemy forces from the primary targets. And your units are not really threatened by Axemen because they gain 75% defensive bonus on hills. Perhaps also send along a Chariot just in case you find an axeman defending a hill based resource. Although a similar tactic might be achieved by other leaders with a Guerilla II archer, there’s not a lot that it can do it there is a Spearman sitting on the resource you want to pillage

    Next the Dun. Now I really have to work hard with this one because walls are things I rarely build and the bonus it gives is not all that exciting. Here I am inclined to believe my first instinct – it is a poor UU - but it can become useful in post-Gunpowder where all the basic infantry units can acquire the bonus. Once again you are at the stage where Musketmen, Grenadiers, Riflemen, Infantry etc, can become specialised hill-based militia, controlling key passes etc. And at this stage you will almost certainly have stone. Simply divide your military cities into two types: infantry/garrisons and mounted. One builds the dun while the other builds the stable and everyone is happy for it. You won’t find all that many uses for the Dun in the early game but later it can be a pleasant little bonus.

    Well that’s the end of my little analysis of Brennus. It would be good to hear other ideas or suggestions.

  • #2
    Randomly got Brennus on my first game with Warlords, lot my first game very early. Partly through trying too many new Warlords things out and partly because his UU and UB utterly suck. Nice traits and fairly good starting techs though.
    Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
    Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
    We've got both kinds

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    • #3
      If your in the "Highlands" map, their UU is wonderful; extra defense marching on hills to the enemy cities with your version of Swords.

      And if you find yourself needing to be defensive, their UB is also quite good; free Drill I & Gurilla I on archers in addition to the normal effect of city walls.

      Another comment I'd add is as Brennus (perhaps the happinest of the civs) is that health resources & buildings are more important to you than most civs in determing your max city size.
      1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
      Templar Science Minister
      AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

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      • #4
        On the happiness versus health side I see your point although it’s difficult for me to see him be so happy for the health to be an issue for many cases simply because of the nature of happiness and health bonuses. In the ancient era the weighting is so far towards health that I can’t see this biting until later in the game

        Happiness: 5 resources (of which silver is usually hard to acquire, fur sometimes difficult and most gems need classical jungle clearing tech)
        No building multipliers
        Religion + Temples +2

        For those where religion is less accessible, you’re often limited to 2 until calendar/monarchy

        Health: 3 seafood resources
        3 grain resources
        4 animal resources
        2 from fresh water
        +0-5 from forest
        +3 building multipliers

        A potential 20 in bonuses!!!!

        Of course, once the other sources of happiness are acquired, the balance might be redressed but this will be quite some way into the game.

        As a second point, unhappiness is a far more serious problem than unhealthiness so the reaction to unhealthiness is not as pressing as the reaction to unhappiness

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        • #5
          ....and the penalty for unhappiness is far worse then unhealthiness. 1 food vs one worker.
          I run food rich cities at -3 to -5 unhealthy all the time but rarely -3 to -5 unhappy.
          It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
          RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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          • #6
            Originally posted by rah
            ....and the penalty for unhappiness is far worse then unhealthiness. 1 food vs one worker.
            I run food rich cities at -3 to -5 unhealthy all the time but rarely -3 to -5 unhappy.
            I did add this point at the end but there’s no harm in mentioning this again

            If other people’s reaction to unhealthiness is similar to my own then I can guess we can easily get unduly concerned about these limits. We see a sickly green city and immediately assume that we must do something about it. In a similar way to when a city that is starving or not growing, there are big red lights on the map telling us we have an emergency!!!

            These are times when you really need to think and ask yourself if that extra population is still creating some benefit. If they are working a post-Replaceable Parts Watermill on a floodplain then the extra population gives +0/+2/+1 which is enough to tell us that we do not need to whip them. A poor return will give the opposite answer.

            The other solution to unhealthiness is to acquire more health. The easiest way to do this is to acquire more resources but I think most people tend to do this anyway and the problem tends to turn to buildings giving health improvements. Here, though, the comparison has to be made with other buildings. A city with +1 health will gain a +1f improvement from an aquaduct. This compares very quite unfavourably with many other improvements so should be scheduled accordingly in the build plans for the city.

            Overall the biggest problem is to make sure that we do not fall into the instinctive reaction of:

            Our city is suffering from unhealthiness so we must solve this IMMEDIATELY.

            In most cases, it’s something we can leave to another day and one that we can live with. As long as no-one is dying, it’s often rarely a serious problem.

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            • #7
              So, a good solution for bad health is working them to death?

              I'd like to have a doctor-specialist...
              I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by couerdelion

                Overall the biggest problem is to make sure that we do not fall into the instinctive reaction of:

                Our city is suffering from unhealthiness so we must solve this IMMEDIATELY.

                In most cases, it’s something we can leave to another day and one that we can live with. As long as no-one is dying, it’s often rarely a serious problem.
                That is one lesson I have recently been learning. And it is hard to learn. Each turn I see those ugly green fumes and panic once again and have to tell myself once again, "You checked, they are still growing. You can wait a few turns." Next turn, same thing. I am glad I can laugh at myself, otherwise, in the silence, I would hear my computer snickering at me. Yet again.
                If you aren't confused,
                You don't understand.

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                • #9
                  It used to bother me to, especially when you'd get the pop up that the city is a filthy sewer and you should build an aquaduct. But if they ain't starving they ain't getting an aquaduct, and maybe not even if they're starving. But I do note the city so I can check back in a few turns and see if the whip is required.
                  It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                  RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                  • #10
                    I have largely conquered my worries about unhealth, so long as said unhealth is not restricting my city's ability to grow to the happy cap.

                    Sometimes I allow unhealthiness to stop the city's growth because it's at the happy cap anyway. Once I've increased the happy cap (or know I'm about to), I might build a health improvement (aqueduct, harbor, etc).

                    I'll worry about unhealth if the city is losing more than 1 food and is stagnant - because that means the unhealth is costing me a specialist. Now, if I'm already running a bunch and the extra specialist would be ye olde generic "citizen" nevermind. But if I'm costing myself a priest, scientist, etc... maybe it's time to whip in an aqueduct.

                    -Arrian
                    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                    • #11
                      To get back on the topic, I think that the Gallic is possibly the best Swordsmen UU - the reason? If you have copper, you can head straight to Iron Working and be assured of getting it *the moment you hit Iron Working*, and they are beasts on hills.

                      With other Sword UU's except the weaker Jaguar you have to first research Iron Working and *gamble* on there being Iron and then you also have to hook the Iron up ebfore you can start spitting out Swords.


                      Brennus is one of my top 3 or 4 leaders but I'm playing him (rolled him randomly) in the Teach Alexman PBEM so I better not give away too many of my thoughts on Celt Strategy .

                      That said, in that game I research meditation straight away and got it (I think only Mysticism civ in the game?) I also immediately switched to it so I'm not giving away anything here. Anyway I obviously think that for Celts religion first is always a strong opening. With religion in hand he has so much easy happiness and the religion can handle border expansions usually, or you can just build a monument (which he starts with the tech for) and enjoy the +1 Happy too - either way you get +1 happy and +1 culture.

                      I reckon that the combo of Cha/Spi/Mysticism/Free Guerilla almost makes Brennus a tri-trait'er, he has half of creative since he can go religion first and starts with the tech to build monuments which give extra happy so other than actually being Cre he has the best culture options (tho HC is nearly as good). The free Guerilla is pretty much as useful as Protective is, assuming an abundance of Hills - actually I'd take free Guerilla on archers and swordmen OVER Protective, but that mainly reflects how bad I think protective is (only half a trait). So I tend to think of Brennus as having two traits and two half traits.


                      If you're wondering my other top leaders are Hatty (sick traits and sick UU), Augustus (great traits and awesome UU) and Alexander (Fun traits, Solid UU, great UB!!!)
                      Last edited by Blake; January 12, 2007, 23:02.

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                      • #12
                        So how long before your game gets to a stage where the information is not “spoiling” anymore? It would be interesting to compare notes though I did miss the fact that the swordsmen only need copper.

                        As for the free guerrilla promotion, this is not necessarily a given since it requires the UB which is a replacement for walls which is a rather rare build for me and here I’ve only built them selectively for the free promotion. It does mean that you can get a certain military specialisation which allows one military city to build stable and mounted units and one to build the dun and defensive ones. But once you have 8+ cities, this is not a difficult thing to manage.

                        To give some indication, by 1340 AD, I have 23 cities and only three duns. The capital and H.Epic city have bother stable and dun while another military city has the dun. One other city has spent the last 200 years building almost nothing but Buddhist monks which has been just enough to keep up with new conquests.

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                        • #13
                          If you have stone, then Brennus is a great candidate for the early-castle, late Economics strategy. Gives you extra trade routes in all cities, and you can then do things such as beeline gunpowder. Duns will give Guerilla to all your muskets, grenadiers, and rifles. And, they'll keep it the whole game. Not a huge benefit (the trade routes are much more important) but it will come in handy in odd situations.

                          Wodan

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                          • #14
                            Here’s a question though. If you upgrade a gallic swordsman, do they keep the free promotion?

                            And does the question depend on whether the swordsman was built in a “dun” city?

                            As for the castle strategy, it depends not just on the situation with stone but the trading opportunities and each cities relative expertise. Even with stone, it will cost at least 75 hammers to gain one extra trade route (113h on Epic speed) with a return of 3-6 commerce. Let’s say it gives us 4 commerce and our average multiplier is 25% - so it gives around 5 gold (or equivalent).

                            Cost of castle (and dun) is 113h = 170g
                            Value of extra trade route is 5gpt or 333g (less 25% after Economics) = 250g

                            Not a bad return but nothing mind-shatteringly worthwhile

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                            • #15
                              I didn't notice swordsmen only need copper either.
                              Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                              Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                              We've got both kinds

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