Are there certain combinations of Civs that will War?

[wanderer27]

ben04,

Ah, Culture. I bet that's what happened then, I do recall seeing her borders.



jkp1187,

Never thought of Doubling the number of Civs, I usually turn off one or two for the extra land. That sounds like it just might be one wild ride

[MightyTiny]

Originally posted by wanderer27
....Never thought of Doubling the number of Civs, I usually turn off one or two for the extra land. That sounds like it just might be one wild ride

And therein lies the root of your barb problems. More unoccupied land = more land not visible to players = more land for barbs to spawn in, and found cities on.

[wanderer27]

The continueing Saga - (multipart post).


Two games ago:

I'm going along, thinking things are going pretty well. I've managed to hold off the Barbarians and I'm expanding about as well as expected. That's about when Huayna decided to drop by - Pearl Harbor style.
I had a handful of ships in the area, but nowhere near enough to slow him down. He dropped a Stack right next to a City I was using to Culture another Civs City - I was almost ready to flip it too. The dirty SOB razed my frickin' City
I managed to clean his forces off the Island (big), re-settled a new City, and began making preps to return the 'favor'.

That's when the Horn went off.

It was Monty. Talk about your wild Hordes. He dumped some Stacks on me the likes of which I've never seen before. Man he had a lot of ships. I had quite a few in the area too as he was my next door neighbor - Huayna was in the opposite Hemishere. I sank ships left and right, chased him back to his own territory sinking what I could along the way, but I hardly made a dent
And the troops he dropped off . . . . I had some good troops in my City, it was a well devoloped one on my Homeland. Damn they fought good, but against the Horde Monty dropped off they couldn't hold out . . . and he razed my City
Now I was looking at this Horde that was getting ready to storm into the heart of my Empire. The only good part is the City he razed was on a chunk of land at the end of a long one tile-wide Penisala.
Turned out to be a moot point though, because right about then Isabella thought it looked like it might be a fun party . . . . I resigned.

[wanderer27]

One game ago:

What luck! I draw Huayna and Monty again

Again, doing well, held off the Barbs and have concentrated more on my Military. Damned if Monty not's my neighbor again - to the West, so I've got a pretty decent Fleet sitting over there.

Huayna's being difficult, and I'm expecting him to hit me from the South. To the East is Ceasar, but we're getting along fair. Cyrus and I getting along well, in fact we have a Defensive pact.

That's about when Jule's decides to attack me on a new Island I'm busy Colonizing - he's decided to Colonize it as well and has a size 5 City on it.

He drops a Stack next to one of my Cities on the Island. I was really expecting Huayna to be hitting me, so I had a fair number of ships in the area. I sank his now empty Fleet and sent some ships to pillage and pound his Homeland. I managed to hold off his troops and kept my City, cleaned up his forces, and captured the City he had on MY ( ) Island.

So, I'm busy making preps to go attack Julius, pounding his Cities and pillaging his Seafood (starving his coastal cities to make assimilation easier), when Monty decides to pay a visit.

One problem though. There were some Islands off the coast of my mainland this time (which I had colonized), so my Cultural borders were farther out from my home. His last movement point was right where he just crossed into my borders.

I had ALOT of ships in the area

Monty brought ALOT of ships I surrounded him so he couldn't move without having to attack. I sank ships left and right. I pulled ships from all directions, leaving myself exposed, but I had no choice.

I sank his Fleet LOADED with troops

Now I had a two front War. Monty to the West and Ceasar to the East. Ole Jules though had been pleading for a Peace though, and since he didn't have any ships that I could find I decided to give him a call.

Hmm, seems Jules wants to give me 2k gold and 10 gold/turn for peace - works for me. I think Cyrus had already made peace with him by then too, but now our Defensive pact was null and void.

Still waiting for that Pyscho Huayna to hit me from the South, but I go ahead and invade Monty.

He's big. Has two large Islands all to himself and several smaller ones scattered about.

I take his first Island - close to a dozen Cities on it. Now I'm on his Homeland, he's been suing for peace. I've taken his Capital and two other Cities.

Cyrus gives me call.

Seems he in a bit of a mess. He's got Tokugawa, Genghis, and . . . . Huayna pounding on him. Hmm, I guess maybe that's why Huayna hadn't hit me from the South.

Anyway, Cyrus needs a favor. He wants to know if I can be bothered to go attack Huayna for him . . . .

I call Monty, get some cash from him and make peace. This turns out to be a problem with two of the three Cities on that Island, but I manage.

I hit Huayna.

I surprise him on the first City and take it quick. The next City is tougher - takes a couple of turns. The third City is a nightmare - he's tough. I finally manage to take it, and plan on taking one more city to solidfy my position and then ask for peace.

It didn't quite work out that way though. I end up having to take half his land before I get to a point where I can go for peace. It was tough and costly though.

Monty subdued, Huayna weakened, the rest of the game was fairly peaceful. I don't think there were anymore wars after that.

Diplo victory wasn't going to happen. I was doing good to maintain control of the UN. I managed to squeak a Space Victory three turns before time expired

[MightyTiny]

That someone (that's not Monty) attacks you from across the world is a pretty good hint that your military forces weren't quite developed enough. (Monty, it seems, will attack you pretty much regardless of any considerations. )

First, in any game, if I see that Monty is right next door to me, I'll start preparing to conquer him early on - it'll be war in any case sooner or later, so why not make it sooner, and on your terms? Get yourself some extra cities and territory in the process.

It's always important to keep checking the charts regularly to see how you fare in terms of military power in comparison to other civs, and to see when someone starts a significant buildup of forces - usually a prelude to war.

Always make sure that you are, if not the strongest, then at least within striking distance to the strongest, in terms of military power, and consider that anyone that gains an advantage over you militarily may decide to attack you.

Also, if some part of your empire is poorly defended, if there's a weak point, then it seems that the AI opponents will tend to pick up on the fact, and may plan a surprice invasion just there, even if their total military power is slightly lower than yours.

For example, in one game, I had a good setup with a few strong allies, including Shaka, who was pleased at me at the time when he noticed a part of my coast that was inadequately defended, declared war, and made landfall with a bunch of troops on my weakest point. This really took me by surprice, because the power graph showed me to be the strongest military might, and the Zulu being #2.

And other civs will pile up on you if they sense weakness, especially if you haven't managed your diplomacy well enough to have strong friends that you can buy off to join the war on your side.

[wanderer27]

Which brings me to my current game.

It's almost 1800, and there hasn't been a single War.

I've got my Military built, it's costing me, and it's probably not as big as it should be (according to the Demographics).

No Monty this time , but I did draw Huayna and Ceasar.

Ceasar's a pretty good way's off, so I don't think he'll cause me any problems. Alexandar's not terribly happy with me, and I think we may have some Culture borders getting ready to touch. Huayna's to the North, but distance doesn't seem to matter to him.
Louis is the one I'm worried about. That backstabbing SOB has been none to pleased with me most of the game.

I've got a really big Fleet spread out to form a sensor net quite a ways off from my Homeland. If Louis trips my senty net I should know about it. If he does, and he's got a load of ships I'm probably going to have to do a pre-emptive strike.

With Huayna it's going to be a little tougher as he's closer. Alexandar is going to be a real challenge as well.

As I was saying, it's nearly 1800 and there has yet to be a War. This one is getting nerve racking - I keep expecting to hear that horn go off announcing someone is attacking me.

I've had a few false warnings, with trade deals getting cancelled. Each time that happens I go, alright, get ready, here they come . . . . and nothing.

These have all been on Noble level. In this current game there's very little if any free land available. I'm really surprised by the play this time around

[wanderer27]

Well, apparently I guess I just wasn't patient enough, because in the space of my next twenty turns there were five Wars

Things got pretty interesting there for awhile. Mansa and I were in a Defensive pact when Jules of all people decided to attack me. Thought for sure it was going to be Loius, or maybe Huayna.

I had the last few parts for the Space ship under production by then, so I just sent a few Battleships to pound and pillage to keep him off balance. I threw in a few Carriers too - bombed half his Homeland back to the Stone Age, concentrating on high yield targets (bonus tiles).

Won the Space Victory.

It was a really odd game up until then. No Wars until right around 1800 or just a little after.

[wanderer27]

Ugly game.

No Copper and no Seafood on any of my coasts
Also about a dozen Desert tiles (no Oasis/Incense though) and lots of Tundra.
Monty's down South and Bismark's being a turd (unusual). Barbs burnt up alot of my early production going through Warriors - not looking good so far.


Sidebar (actually main reason for this post):

Does anyone actually build Supermarkets in Civ 4 ?

They were quite handy in Civ 3, but in this one I generally use Recycle and Hospital (if needed). By the time these are built I'm usually getting the +Happy/+Health from Future Tech.

Also, Aqueducts. Very, very rarely have I built even one of these. Anyone use them much?

[JackRudd]

Aqueducts? Hell yeah. The Hanging Gardens is a very nice Wonder (particularly if you build it in a city that already has the Great Wall and the Pyramids), and you need an Aqueduct for that.

[DrSpike]

Aqueducts I usually build, but often late game as a cheap 2 health rather than when they are first available.

Supermarkets I rarely build.

[wanderer27]

I've been playing these for years and I keep learning new things. I never even noticed the HG was enabled by Aqueducts



Okay, I've come accross another oddity. I'm just really struggling to keep up/keep ahead of the other Civs, and it just seems to be getting worse each game. I thought I had a humming Economy, but it just didn't seem I was that I was gaining any ground.
So I opened the Finance ($) menu to look around, and it said my total Income/Taxes was 18gp
I didn't think that could be even close to correct, so I opened up my Capitol City menu . . . . base commerce 36gp.
My Research at the time was 100%, so if anything I could understand it being 0, but really expected to see the total from all my cities before it was converted to Beakers.

Am I misunderstanding the game mechanics in this area?

[MightyTiny]

Supermarkets tend to be useful in OCC games, where you've got plenty of food. Especially if you're running a specialist based economy, and thus want to have a very big population. Also, in a normal game, if you have a city specializing in GP generation, with essentially farms and other developed food sources covering most of the fat cross area, polution may be holding back growth even in the late game.

As for how to keep up with research... cottages are key, though remember to have enough food sources in the city to be able to work those cottages too. And aim at making a science-city, where you'll build the Great Library and oxford university, one that has lots of cottages, and/or gold/silver/gems/silk to produce more commerce.

Free market civic will add trade routes, which gives more commerce.

Also, a good way of generating science is to build the pyramids, and switch to representation early - your specialists will then generate extra research.

You might also try playing a financial leader; that's one of the strongest traits in the game.

[wanderer27]

Well, I'm playing Qin (Ind/Fin), and generally in my Capital city I'll usually have the Great Lighthouse (+1 trade), Great Library, Oxford, Scientist's Academy (from GS), Wall Street, and pretty much any building that boosts Science and Finance. I build Research and Finance buildings in all my cities.

For my cities, I try to plan it out so that I'll have at least 42 food (2/tile for 21 worked tiles), I'll leave two or so as Forest (logging) and the rest are Cottages. Still doing some experimenting/testing on Cottage/Resource balancing, but I use a lot of Cottages. Generally I have no trouble running Research at 80% with a surplus of cash per turn.

The issue is what the Finance Adviser reported (F2 ?). It showed my Total Income/Taxes as 18, but I my Base gp was 36 in just my Capital. Something's not right there, am I getting dinged (Handicapped) somewhere so that I only get x% of Income?

[Virdrago]

check F2 again. What's the inflation rate? It might be very high. It might be part of the reason...

[wanderer27]

Unfortunately I didn't save at that point

The only other save in that "Time" area was much earlier. For it I have a 0 Income showing, which is what I would expect. Base Income for the Capital at that point is 16.

I will keep an eye on this in my next game and will track and post the stats should I see this again.