Three things to know about Warlords

[Geronimo]

I don't think there is much point in playing great sea faring civs on an all land map anyway.

[DrSpike]

The more nuanced point is that is has proved difficult to model naval warfare in Civ in way that the AI can handle. Thus this element is played down, and it would be mean to give us a naval unit. Having said that there are some ****e UUs so it wouldn't be inconsistent.

[rah]

But at least the AI in CIV IV handles navel units better than in II. You'd rarely see an aircraft carrier with planes on it. You could gift one to the AI and it would immediately use it to attack a well fortified city and destroy itself.

But I'll give CIV II kudos for one aspect that is sorely lacking in IV. The ship killing cruise missle. Any undefended battleship would be immediately targeted and destroyed. Your battleships are king in IV. The kind needs to be knocked off every now and then.

[wodan11]

Re: Three things to know about Warlords

Originally posted by billones
I let my parents get me Warlords for Christmas....

Man, I need to "let" people "get me" stuff. Maybe a Lamborghini or supermodel for a girlfriend. Stuff like that.

Wodan

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Geronimo
I don't think there is much point in playing great sea faring civs on an all land map anyway.

No, but I play random civs (a lot of people do) and most people choose random opponents too.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by MikeH
Naval UUs aren't used because they are unbalanced. Some map types have no water...

And yet they still give us UBs that require water - Carthaginians and Vikings.

British power in the 19th century was a combination of trade and industry with the former being a necessary requirement for the latter to function. In fact, almost every nation benefited to some extent from British sea power since this maintained the Pax Britannica, much as Pax Americana underpins today's free trade.

[gdgrimm]

Re: Three things to know about Warlords

Originally posted by billones
I let my parents get me Warlords for Christmas, so I've basically been playing other games since it came out. I'm familiar with the basics of what was changed in the expansion, but reading the rules and playing the game are two different things.

What three things do I *really* need to know before I hit "start new game" under Warlords?

(I tend to win on Prince/Normal and lose on Monarch/normal, if that helps any.)

1) Chariots now get 100% Attack vs. Axeman bonus. So grabbing Animal Husbandry before Bronze Working is viable.

2) They've removed the CS slingshot exploit by
a) making Mathematics a pre-req for CS, so the Oracle is probably finished before you'd have researched all the necessary pre-reqs for CS.
b) moving Masonry in front of CS for the Great Prophet tech pop path. So you'll have to research or tech pop Theology before getting a chance to pop CS from a GP.

3)Trebs make almost any other Medieval City taking unit useless (though the latest patch makes the hammer cost of building them quite a bit higher).

[Asm0deus]

Originally posted by Geronimo
was there ever any empire which owed so much of it's power to the dominance of it's navy?

The medieval Chinese -- they had the largest navy of the period, and could have easily squashed the English, Spanish, and French IMO... Had they not foolishly burned it to the ground (sea?) when its architect and most celebrated admiral died. Long before others, they had ships dedicated to storing/transporting/rationing specific resources, such as fresh water, horses, colonists, tools, siege weapons, etc.
(For a short video version of this, check out "Engineering an Empire" on the History Channel, or a decent write-up on Wiki. Zeng/Zheng He.)


Back on topic...
I certainly agree that you'll need to change your early-game combat strategy a bit in comparison to vanilla/pre-2.08 CivIV. Those "fortified sponges" will have to more aggressively engage types of invaders that may have previously been suckered into their deaths. While I was annoyed at first, it's actually made the early game even more fun.

I can't qualify this scientifically, but it seems like the AI retreats/heals damaged units more effectively now in the Medieval era.

Lastly, Great Generals have had a rather drastic impact on my "cannon fodder" approach -- I'm much more conservative than I used to be (although I'm not sure that's an entirely good thing!)...

[MikeH]

Originally posted by couerdelion


And yet they still give us UBs that require water - Carthaginians and Vikings.

A good point. I haven't randomly got either of them yet, so I didn't think of it. The vikings always tend to be **** when up against me though.

[couerdelion]

Re: Re: Three things to know about Warlords

Originally posted by gdgrimm


1) Chariots now get 100% Attack vs. Axeman bonus. So grabbing Animal Husbandry before Bronze Working is viable.

2) They've removed the CS slingshot exploit by
a) making Mathematics a pre-req for CS, so the Oracle is probably finished before you'd have researched all the necessary pre-reqs for CS.
b) moving Masonry in front of CS for the Great Prophet tech pop path. So you'll have to research or tech pop Theology before getting a chance to pop CS from a GP.

3)Trebs make almost any other Medieval City taking unit useless (though the latest patch makes the hammer cost of building them quite a bit higher).

Point 2) is, I believe, a patch update and not Warlords. If you add this then the biggest differences would be that the AI is a lot stronger.

[rah]

Agreed, much different.
I hope we get one more patch because I'm really eager to see the further improvements done by Blake, but since I play MP a lot, I don't want to upgrade in order not to cause problems.

[MikeH]

It's actually really easy to drop his file into custom assets for SP and then just move it/rename it when you are playing MP. I'm not even sure it'd be used in MP actually.

[DrSpike]

Yeah the additional AI changes do not override the core files and it's very easy to switch between versions.

[rah]

Easy for you. Try switching back and forth after a few beers and whatever.
I prefer to keep it lily white for MP games and not have to worry about it. Yes, I know, quite lazy.
When that message pops that someone is using a modified version, it can be embarassing.

[khumak]

The CS slingshot is still possible on the middle to lower levels but only if you have access to a lot of commerce early on and/or get lucky with goodie huts. On the highest levels I don't think it's possible anymore unless you get ridiculously lucky. I can still get it sometimes on Prince.

Your best bet is probably Elizabeth (FIN/PHI) with lots of rivered floodplains or on a coast with seafood specials. Gold would be nice but I don't think I've ever had a game where my initial city had access to gold. Elizabeth gives you the nice boost to early commerce plus the double GPP for the early Academy once you build the library.

If I go for the oracle at all now, I usually use it for Metal Casting. Sometimes I'll nab a religion with it if the AI beats me to Code of Laws.