If you improve a forest special, do you get the hammer bonus for chopping it?

[snafuc4]

(this is non-warlords BTW)

[rjmatsleepers]

Yes.

RJM

[gdgrimm]

IIRC, though, some improvements (like Camps) don't destroy Jungle/Forest. So if you want any chopping benefit from building a Camp on the Deer Forest, you'll have to chop it separately.

[Dis]

But if you chop it you'll be losing 2 hammers I'd think.

[binTravkin]

1 hammer, as forest is +1 hammer

[popejubal]

Originally posted by gdgrimm
IIRC, though, some improvements (like Camps) don't destroy Jungle/Forest. So if you want any chopping benefit from building a Camp on the Deer Forest, you'll have to chop it separately.

This is correct, although it doesn't really matter much with Deer since Deer tend to show up in areas that otherwise stink so very badly that I'd rather just trade something to the AI than actually found a city there.

As for Elephants, the camps-don't-chop-trees thing is very nice since you can leave the forest for the extra production and you can also leave the Jungle if you haven't discovered Iron Working yet.

All other improvements besides roads do destroy forests. This is one of the reasons why forts are nearly worthless (not sure if warlords 2.08 lets forts leave forests/jungle, though).

[Dis]

nope forts are still worthless (though I have yet to build one since my very first civ game )

[xalien]

I did built a fort in a forest in 1.61 without chopping it away for a total 75% defensive bonus.

[Saurus]

Originally posted by Dis
nope forts are still worthless (though I have yet to build one since my very first civ game )

I have actually built a fort once
It should be noted though that I really did not intend to build the fort but rather a workshop. Somehow I managed to accidentaly press the "build fort"-button instead.
But, guess that still counts ...

Serisously, the only situation were I can see the fort useful is during situations where landmasses are connected by one single square. Then you could boost the defense on either side so that no-one can pass whitout attacking the fort or taking the sea route.
But even this is worth doing only if there is no forest to take advantage of.

[snafuc4]

Thanks all. I take it that this applies both in 1.61 as well as Warlords..

[DrSpike]

Yes.

[snafuc4]

Ta

[couerdelion]

Camps do not destroy the forest. Plantations do but you get the 30 hammer production bonus.

Where you have deer or fur in a forest, there is obviously a loss from chopping the forest - the 30 hammers gained is almost always worth less than the extra hammer bonus over the game.

Exceptions would be
1) Where you need those hammers NOW!! - Eg Wonder Race, Survival
2) If you plan to replace the camp with something better (eg late game Watermill replacing Fur camp)

[DrSpike]

You also get the reverse effect - i.e you can have jungle not being removed by a camp, and you need to remove it to get the 'full' food quota for the tile.