dacole living as loui DAR

[dacole]

Ok I am putting my DAR's from death on prince in this thread thought I would put mine in a new thread to keep things seperate and so people can comment on each players strategy differently should also make it easier to see development of the same person's strategy over time.

So here is my civilization at 2000 BC



I started at the original spot. Did a warrior first strategy since I wanted to go for an early religon and if I had done a worker first he wouldn't have had anything to do. Took two huts one gave me thirty gold and another a scout almost took a third but the AI got their 1 turn before I did. I founded hinduism in 3280 BC. City was still only 1 pop went ahead and made a worker while working on hunting to put camps around the elephants. No one had founded budishism after I founded hinduism so I decided to take a chance and try for it. Missed it by three turns but now I can build monistaries and spread my religon. (would have made it if I hadn't detoured for hunting). Picked up fishing and that got me to where we are now. I have marked on the map where I am going to put my second city. One to the west will be able to pick up both the corn the gold and the incense. One to the north will pick up pigs and silver. This map has a plethora of GREAT city locations.

Post for where the game for this came from and other ways of playing it can be found here http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=159990

[dacole]

300 BC

ok here I am in 300 BC



Picked up animal husbandry after fishing to see where the metals were located. Seemed to have gotten beat out for those so went for horseback riding since I had horses in my area. I entered the classical era in 675 AD built stonehenge in 350 AD this allowed me to capitalize on one of loui's strengths now rather than having +2 culture for each city I have +3 civilization can control a lot of territory this way. Picked up alphabet to get open border agreements so I can start spreading my religon (going for an early religion is useless unless you spread it). Then picked up archery since barbarians had started to build axemen. Picked up masonry alphabet and working on iron working. Cities were a mixture of defense 1 warrior for each civ and infastructure. Barreks, monastaries, granieries and workers. Each city had at least 1 worker by this time. Stonehenge was built in the capitol. I switched to slavery as soon as possible and started whiping things out often.

[Diadem]

You are spacing your cities way too far apart. You're missing out a lot of great spots by doing it like that. And you're paying a lot of extra upkeep.

You seem to be teching quite slowly. But I can't see why, you don't seem to be doing much wrong. Unless you are building a tremendously huge military or something?

All your cities are rather small, that I can see. How come? Are you poprushing a lot?

[trev]

In my opinion city spacing is fine, cities however are far too small, wait till they get bigger before they are whipped so you can earn more money and tech at a faster rate.

[dacole]

Yea I try and get as many special plots as possible for one city. I thought yours were two close actually diadem heh. I am poprushing things quite a bit yes did seem to hurt me here but I am always afraid of loosing sites with gold or silver to the AI so I rush settelers and workers when needed. Things like missionaries and graneries I also pop rush. My thinking is that getting these buildings and spreading my religon earlier makes up for a lack in early tech. Will be interesting to see how my game compares to yours! (have senese played it up to 1940AD will be posting that DAR soon)

[Diadem]

In the past I always spaced my cities quite far apart. It took me a long time to unlearn this. A long time to realise that it's not the best strategy.

It looks better, having more area available for each cities. But how long does it take for your city to reach a size where it uses all plots in its radius? A looong time. Far too long to be worth a lot in your consideration for where to place cities.

Yes, you do want to have many resources per city. But spacing cities so far apart costs more in maintenance, and with fewer cities you'll actually be using fewer resources. For example you are not using that cows, while cows are probably the best resource to work.

And having many resources per city is not very useful when they can't effectively use them because they are too smal. Take Lyons for example. It has unirrigated corn, desert gold and desert-incense. Using all three gives your city a net food surplus of 1 - thus really hurting it.


Placing cities far from eachother to keep the AI from stealing 'your' land is a good idea. That's why I put one of my cities so far away, for example. But in general closer spaced cities allow you to use more land effectively.

[foudres]

But Diadem ofen it's not even a choice where you place the cities. You put them where the AI is not and where is the best cite you can go to.

If for exemple strategic ressources like copper, iron and horses are too far away, you'll have to go there even if site is not that good.

Making sure that some AI is badly screwed and will not be able to do anything is right because you will able to conquest easy.

Also ofen the number of cities cost a lot. It's difficult indeed i think to afford more than 5-6 cities at the begining of the game so taking the best sites (not with most special, but overall best sites) can be a big advantage by allowing you to use them and denying access to them to others.

I agree through that it's better to have a good productive site (in all sence of the term, not only production but also commerce and food) than just one with more specials.

In many cases (not small maps) it's difficult to find a site with more than 3 or 4 specials anyways.


On the exemple here i think that where the cities have been founded is a magor problem for food.

[couerdelion]

Re: dacole living as loui DAR

Originally posted by dacole
I founded hinduism in 3280 BC. City was still only 1 pop went ahead and made a worker while working on hunting to put camps around the elephants.

Well there's obviously something you've missed out. Assuming that you are playing on standard speed, 3280AD is 18 turns into the game which I think means that you must be working those 1/2/1 elephant tiles. From 3800AD you would have had a pig 3/0/0 tile which you should have been using from the start.

There are a few occasions at the start where you want to maximise production. Usually this will be for a rapid workboat or scout build. In almost every other situation you should be maximising food.

In total, those 18 turns at population 1 have given you 54 hammers and 36 commerce (excluding trade/palace).

Now let’s assume the following tile options

Turns 1-5: Grassland forest - 10/22 food, 10 hammers, 5 commerce
Turns 6-9: Pigs - 22/22 food = growth, 14 hammers, 9 commerce
Turns 10-17: Pigs+Grassland forest - 24/24 food, 22 hammers, 17 commerce
Turn 18: Working another grassland forest 3/26 food, 25 hammers, 18 commerce

Now you’ll notice already that you’ve produced half the commerce and slightly less than half the production of the first option but that your capital is much larger. A worker now takes 10 turns to build rather than the 15 at size 1 and getting that worker out and improving the pigs is probably the best thing you can do first with this.

To be honest, going for an early religion with Louis doesn’t work very well. Take a look at him

Starting techs: Wheel/Agriculture

First of all, your worker will always have something to do and since fishing and scouting are not options you have from this position I would recommend this as the strongest opener. Since you really want him doing something a little more useful than roads, Animal Husbandry is likely to be the best way to go from the start.

Trait 1: Creative

As Blake demonstrates, this can be a very useful early game trait. You don’t need to worry that a resource is not right next to a city as long as it is in the “fat cross”. So you can place your early cities optimally.

Trait 2: Industrious

Actually not my favourite trait and, in this case, I doubt that I would be tempted into an early rush for wonder.

The other aspects of Blake’s start was the move to the hill. This cost two turns but generates an extra 1 hammer/turn thereafter. An alternative might also have been to move onto on of the elephants but – knowing the whole layout, this would not have given you much in the way of food. At least from your starting point, you know that the plains hill also has pigs right from the start.

[dacole]

thoughts of going for an early religon was to have one when otherwise I might not and be able to found a shrine and get money from it. I also had a couple warriors that I would not have had otherwise if I used your building that I was able to build and use to explore (and will use the upgraded versions when I start fighting) still I openly admit my plan was not optimal interesting the maximising food at the expense of any production at all seems like it would make hut poping at exploration to slow...

[Blake]

The other aspects of Blake’s start was the move to the hill. This cost two turns but generates an extra 1 hammer/turn thereafter. An alternative might also have been to move onto on of the elephants but – knowing the whole layout, this would not have given you much in the way of food. At least from your starting point, you know that the plains hill also has pigs right from the start.

I could also see it was Coast. That means the lake gets to be 3-0-2, it means I can build the Colossus (always good with a strong hammer city) and it means i can get a harbor there for some nice strong trade routes in my capital.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by dacole
thoughts of going for an early religon was to have one when otherwise I might not and be able to found a shrine and get money from it. I also had a couple warriors that I would not have had otherwise if I used your building that I was able to build and use to explore (and will use the upgraded versions when I start fighting) still I openly admit my plan was not optimal interesting the maximising food at the expense of any production at all seems like it would make hut poping at exploration to slow...

Religion is just a nice bonus at the very start of the game. It becomes more valuable when you are in a position to spread it, build money multipliers, generate a prophet, use religious civics. And most of these come much later. The Shrine, for example, does not come with the religion itself but requires a painfully long "gestation period" - research priesthood, build temple, appoint priest for 34 turns.

Note also that the cultural bonus from the religion is also not so important because you are already creative.

If Louis were to target a religion, I would imagine he would probably be more suited to Confucianism.

Each leader has their own traits and starting techs and these will determine a near optimum strategy for that leader. By adopting this strategy, you can start building up your civilisation in a more efficient way which can then be used to acquire those other things that the civilisation is not so good at.

As for the question of hut popping, it is sometimes worth recognising that the AI is going to get these ahead of you. If you really want to pop huts, you have to pick a civ which starts with hunting and then quickly throw out a second scout. The window for huts closes so quickly that the poor warrior is just too poor at acquiring them.

But this is not a serious problem. With a good resource to develop, the worker first start will often be the strongest play and this strategy will quickly recover over the one who sent out scouts to bring back two techs and 200g.