A Better AI.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Jaybe
You "quit" the bleepin' game, Willem. You LOST -- you were BEATEN by being forced into "tedium." The AI WON the game.

And that is how your tactics were subordinated to strategy of the AI.

I see. Not much of a victory for the AI though since it ceased to exist as soon as I went back to desktop. So it was more of a stalemate than a win really.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Jaybe
You "quit" the bleepin' game, Willem. You LOST -- you were BEATEN by being forced into "tedium." The AI WON the game.

And that is how your tactics were subordinated to strategy of the AI.

I didn't realise a "better AI" meant they would bore you to death.

If that were all, Blake has been wasting his time; there are much simpler ways of doing that.

RJM

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I didn't realise a "better AI" meant they would bore you to death.

If that were all, Blake has been wasting his time; there are much simpler ways of doing that.

I am sure that is just ONE item in their arsenal, to gang up on an opponent (but not singling out the player) to potentially wear him down.

I have also "quit" games from drudgery. I do not blame the AI for such, and any criticism of Willem was only for blaming Better AI for his game's fate, to not peservere in the face of an unexpected situation. But we all have our preferences and limits.

I have played the occasional game to the end where I was destroyed, even in the industrial age (though that was well over a year ago).

[Willem]

Originally posted by Jaybe
... any criticism of Willem was only for blaming Better AI for his game's fate, to not peservere in the face of an unexpected situation.

Why shouldn't I complain if some of the civs that are declaring war on me refuse to consider peace after several hundred years have passed?The original AI as created by Firaxis had a time limit for wars. After a certain amount of years had passed, they would be willing to consider a peace treaty. Blake seems to have eliminated that and the only possibility of sueing for peace is to go out and hurt someone.

But that can be a bit hard to do if I'm in a state of perpetual warfare with 4 civs at once. Go after one, and the others might come in the back door while I'm preoccupied. It also increases the risk that more and more civs will join the fray, after being persuaded by one my enemies to join in. With that amount of time passing it could easily turn into a world war, with me as it's focus.

Not only that but, as I've already mentioned, it reduces the strategy of the game to only one style, that of the warmonger. Civ is supposed to be about options, about being able to play in a number of ways and still have a chance of winning. That can't happen if the AI won't allow you to explore any other variation. It turns Civ into a one dimensional game, and that's not what it's supposed to be about. If I only wanted to play a war game, I'd pull out my Rise of Legends disk, or play Command & Conquer Generals. That's what those games are designed for.

[duuk]

I keep getting an endless loop crash on an assert. Where do I submit bug reports? 2.12.2007 build

[Nacht]

I've found a bug that could explain why AI's tend to pick distant enemies far too often.

I know the better AI team isn't very active these days, but Blake is still here (and if the rumors are true it could be even a bug in BtS. )

it's about this code:

if (iCount > 0)
{
	//cross up to the entire map to kill the only other foe
	//be more picky if there are more foes...
	int iTeamCount = GC.getGame().countCivTeamsAlive();
	int iMaxDistance = GC.getMapINLINE().maxPlotDistance();
		
	if (iSameAreaCount > 0) //preserve sanity on islands...
	{
		iMaxDistance *= 4;
		iMaxDistance /= (2 + iTeamCount);
	}
		
	return max(1, (iMaxDistance - (iDistance / iCount)));
}

that is added in Better AI to CvTeamAI::AI_calculateCapitalProximity which is used to determine the best victim for the next war. It's a score so higher values are better. It basically returns maximum distance minus capital distance in stock Warlords.

consider this map:


The results Isabella gets in Warlords 2.08:

Churchill: 74
Alexander: 72
Stalin: 57
Tokugawa: 64
Ragnar: 46
Bismarck: 34
Huayna Capac: 29
Player (Egypt): 19
Hannibal: 14



with Better AI rev. 368 everyone on her own continent gets vastly lower scores:

Churchill: 14
Alexander: 12
Stalin: 1
Tokugawa: 4
Ragnar: 46
Bismarck: 34
Huayna Capac: 29
Player (Egypt): 19
Hannibal: 14



with Better AI with iSameAreaCount > 0 changed to iSameAreaCount == 0 war on other landmasses is highly discouraged .

Churchill: 74
Alexander: 72
Stalin: 57
Tokugawa: 64
Ragnar: 1
Bismarck: 1
Huayna Capac: 1
Player (Egypt): 1
Hannibal: 1

For those using Better AI, here is the lastest version with this single change.

[Blake]

Well the > 0 is probably wrong, the == 0 is certainly wrong . The code is in fact not working as intended at all, thanks for finding it.

[BigFree]

Yes, thanks indeed Nacht.

A better AI is for everyones enjoyment.

[CrONoS]

!Bump

Does Blake AI Mod is actually making the AI more aggressive, like what Willem have reported in this thread? Is it really more difficult to make peace with AI?

What are your general thought about his mod?

Thank you

[CrONoS]

Oh yeah, and what is the handicap files?

I understand this Blake changed value for the bonus giving to the players or the CPU according to the difficulty level that we chose. But does the handicap is actually advantaging the CPU or the Players comparing to without Blake Handicap Mod?

[CrONoS]

Ok, I've just finished reading the entire thread.

What is the BetterAI New Handicaps Download?

This is an optional additional modification. What it does is reduce some of the bonuses that AI players get compared to human players. This will make all game settings easier. Without these new handicaps, some players were finding Noble or Prince level still too easy with BetterAI, but Monarch too hard (because of all the extra bonuses the AI gets). With the new handicap file, the distance between Prince and Monarch is less (among other things), so Monarch and Emperor games should be more playable. You can find more information about what handicaps were changed in the BetterAI Handicaps Release Notes.

[Arrian]

2nd page.

Bump.

-Arrian

[DrSpike]

Whilst it's bumped:

Blake, can you say anything about your intentions for BtS better AI, given that more of your improvements will be in the core AI?

[Blake]

I was thinking of quitting CIV to play The Sims exclusively.

[Kuciwalker]

You are a good man.