New patch, are there any slings still left

[rah]

Yes, the threads were right, many of our beloved slings are gone. I started looking for other posibilities, and not having much luck. I need something for MP games.
If you don't get the Oracle it looks like you have to actually research COL. (how revolting)

So are then any slings left. Is the rush going to be for the GW now that masonry has been promoted?

Where's Blake when you need him

Come on now folks, don't horde the new secrets. They can't have eliminated all the tricks. There have to be some left or some new ones they didn't realize they were creating (that will probably be eliminated in the next patch).

[Quillan]

I think the Philosophy slingshot is still viable, and probably Farseer. It's still possible to do Civil Service via the Oracle, but the added time required to research Mathematics will probably result in it not happening on any but the lowest difficulty levels.

[couerdelion]

Well unless Mathematics is a pre-req for Philosophy, you can always use the Oracle to Philosophy.

And I would have thought that the Metal Casting sling ->Forge -> GE ->Pyramid would still work

[Tau Ceti]

The Merchant slingshot should also still work.

[Anath]

What's a slingshot?

[Quillan]

It's a phrase we use for a particular strategy, that lets you get a particular tech much faster than you normally could.

For example, prior to the current Warlords patch, the really popular one was the Civil Service slingshot. You made dedicated research to get a few key techs (writing and priesthood, plus the prereqs for same) and then researched Code of Laws while building the Oracle. You tried to arrange it so you completed the Oracle on the same turn you finished researching CoL. Building the Oracle gives you a free tech of your choice, so then you'd choose Civil Service. This is the most expensive tech of that part of the tech tree, plus it unlocks the Bureaucracy civic. Since you'd get it MUCH (typically 30-50 turns) faster than you could by researching it, and even faster than the AIs (since you've been focusing on it) the bonus commerce in your capital would push your research to even greater heights, allowing rapid research well on into the future.

Other popular ones were variations on the civil service slingshot using great prophets (but you'd have to NOT get masonry, because then the prophet would go after Theocracy instead), getting to Philosophy early (which lets you build Angkor Wat and run Pacifism for extra great people) and Farseer (use the oracle to get Metal Casting, allowing you to build forges sooner than you could research.

[Anath]

Oh okey, thanks for clearing that up.

Since Im still on Vanilla Civ I could use that even though it feels like exploiting.. Which means I wont use it :P

[Quillan]

That's not an exploit, though it is a bit unbalancing (which is why the Warlords patch changed it a bit). It's simply good play. You identify features of the game that work well together, and play in such a way as to use them to the best effect. It's no different in form (if different in scale) than choosing a city site with good resources, or building the right improvements, or researching the tech you need just before you need it.

[rah]

The Oracle just got more valuable in MP games.
I used to be able to do the philosophy one using great prophets since oracle in an MP game is a lot harder due to most focusing in on it.

Thanks for all the replies, and more are welcome.

I'm really interested in those that use other great people then prophets since they've been so nerfed.

[eluciv]

I've started about a dozen games since the patch.

I think the Metal Casting or Philo jumps are the only worthy ones left.

Other than a very noticeable increase in challenge (IMO), the AI has been completing the Oracle long before Judaism is founded. Before patch, I knew that once Judaism was founded, I'd have a little time left before one of the AI's completed the Oracle. Not anymore. In fact, I think I completed the Oracle for Metal Casting in one game and was beaten to it in every other game - at Prince level.

I appreciate the smarter AI, but it has knocked me down at least one, sometimes I think 2, skill levels. Whereas Prince used to be a good challenge for me (even though I won most all the time), I find myself back at least 4-500 points by the late Middle Ages.

Also, my initial impression is that the non-aggressive path to victory is as close to obsolete as ever.

[Thedrin]

I've never seen it mentioned anywhere but I assume it's an old one which became more powerful with Warlords. I've only just thought to try it out since getting the patch.

Play as China.
Build Oracle (cheap for Qin).
Take Metal casting as the free technology.
Immeadiately rush a forge in another city (cheap for Qin).
Run an engineer specialist.
Use the great engineer to research machinery.

Very early cho ko nus = mayhem.

When I tried it out I found myself with a large stack of drill IV, city garrison I, guerilla III (a hilly map and trying out the withdrawal bonus) cho ko nus by the time my [remaining] main rivals were switching over to longbows. Even then the collateral inflicted by the greener units would give the experienced lads an excellent success rate without the use of siege for bombarding defences.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Tau Ceti
The Merchant slingshot should also still work.

[ben04]

I got the CS slingshot done with the patch by 1600bc.

Choose a creative leader. Go the normal religious path to priesthood. Start building the Oracle and go for writing. Once you have writting stop with the Oracle, start a library and research the COL. When the library is finished continue with the Oracle and assign 2 scientists. Time the finishing of the Oracle so that you reach COL at least the same turn and have the GS at least one turn before. Use the GS to lightblub Mathematics and you can still get CS early on.

However I don't know if the CS slingshot is still so powerful compared to the Philo one. Perhaps it would be a better idea to go the following road:
Choose Louis XIV. He's creative and industrious. Go first for the pyramids and then after the Oracle to get philo. Cheap scientists + representation + pasifism + lots of GS. Sounds powerful to me.

Augustus + stone would also work great this way. Let the GS handle science and run at a rate of 0% and conquer the world before Christ.

[Blake]

IMO with the latest patch Financial is the best trait for slingshots since they are harder to accelerate with Great People. Creative is also interesting for a faster library and hence faster research / earlier academy.

Use the Oracle to pick up CoL, Metal Casting, Monarchy, Theology.

Higher tier techs which can be Oracle'd by 1000BC with luck:
Feudalism.
Philosophy.
Machinery.


Good techs to grab with Great People:
Great Prophet: Theology.

Theology comes with a religion and a useful war civic.


Great Artist: Alphabet, Monarchy, Theology, Music, Nationalism

Lets look at a reduced list of high-artist priority techs (removing modern ones like Radio)

Literature
Drama
Music
Polytheism
Monarchy
Mysticism
Monotheism
Alphabet
Meditation
Priesthood
Theology
Nationalism

As you can see techs like Monarchy and Alphabet are actually quite high. Generally all you need to do is research Polytheism and avoid Masonry or get both Masonry and Monotheism.

GA's are good for lightbulbing stuff, kinda hard to generate except for that wonder on polytheism that no-one ever builds. Hey, try building it if you have marble. The GA's can grab something useful stuff.


Great Scientist: Philosophy, Optics, Paper

The idea of grabbing Optics with a GS is interesting. Optics is higher priority than paper. The only tech you have to get out of the way is Mathematics, and avoid Philo being available.


Great Merchant:

Lets look at the top 3 Mediveal and earlier techs of the GM:

Currency
Metal Casting
Code of Laws

He can actually provide quite high yield and nothing blocks those techs. A bit hard to generate without Great Lighthouse, or after Caste. Currency can be an excellent choice if your economy is collapsing.


Great Engineer: Machinery, Engineering.

Again a list of top GE techs, removing industrial+ techs:

Machinery
Metal Casting
Mining
Iron Working
Engineering

The main problem with the GE is the oppurtunity cost - he can plop such great wonders and is decent settled. On the bright side nothing will ever block Machinery from being lightbulbable.

[binTravkin]

Also, my initial impression is that the non-aggressive path to victory is as close to obsolete as ever.