Great Wall vs AI

[Chopper]

We all know the effect the Great Wall has on barbs. Shouldn't the Great Wall also have an effect on the AI in war when your defender is on the culture side of the Wall and the AI is on the outside. After all, it is a bloody great big wall which the AI has to get over to attack you if you take a real world view of the situation. May be mell and archer units should get a 75% bonus to defence or something along these lines for any square that borders the Wall.

[couerdelion]

Well if that were the case, all the attacker would do would be to move over the wall into an unoccupied tile. But as it is, there is a bonus to GG production from fighting in your territory.

The question though seems to be one of making the benefits of the Wonders realistic, but overall they are a little arbitrary. Is there any reason why Chichen Itza should give +25% defence in all cities, or why Hanging Gardens increases the population and gives extra health to all citizens. And what is it about the Pyramids that allows you to adopt more “advanced” Government civics?

[Tattila the Hun]

Besides, The Great Wall wasn't about keeping enemies outside, it was to prevent them from fleeing with the loot, thus discouraging them from attacking in the first place. Or so I recall.

I'd like it to have similar option as rivers, ending units turn when crossing one's border. Would help with the bloody pillaging...

[Chopper]

Well, Hanging Gardens could signify some greater unbderstanding of water that permeates itself throughout the empire. Similarly, Chicken Itza may be some sort of priest training. e.g. how to swing a hammer. Pyramids are beyond me unless thier is a Star-Gate inside or something.

The Great Wall does give some terrfic bonusus however there should be a penalty for any unit that attacks a defender on the other side of the wall. I agree that the AI could move diagonally but that would mean that the wall is undefended at that point/square.

The main reason why this came to me is that in trying to maximise GE points in a monarch game I built the Great Wall as soon as I learnt Masonry. It just so happened that the Wall ended up on an isthmus 3 squares from my Capital and was two squares wide and due to water there was no other representation on land. Does the GW extend to water? When attacked by the AI it appeared to me that I should have been receiving a defense bonus to my units, or it would have been nice to extend such a bonus to my units.

This bonus would be nigh impossible to get blanketly if you have to cover all squares in a normal Great Wall build which surrounds your empire but I do feel that it could be applied in the game logic. A normal GW cover would entain approx 25 plus squares which is a bucket load of units to build.

[Diadem]

Well Firaxis made a mistake with the pyramids. They should give a granary in every city, everybody knows that.

I agree that the GW should act as a river, so crossing it on an attack should give a penalty. But really it's already quite powerful, so it should be made a bit more expensive then.

[Quillan]

Well, the in-game representation of the Wall is around the cultural borders (land only) of whatever block of territory contains the city where it's "built". It'll split for lakes and fjords (don't remember about rivers now), but the benefits extend to your entire cultural territory. That benefit continues even when your territory expands.

[I_pity_the_fool]

Well Firaxis made a mistake with the pyramids. They should give a granary in every city, everybody knows that.

Nah! I played Civilization I. In that, not only could you change to any form of government but the change was without a turn of anarchy! Civ4 is clearly returning to the good old days.

[JackRudd]

Capac would be fun to play with a Civ2/3-style Pyramids.

[Diadem]

Ehm, in civ1 the pyramids gave a free granary. In civ2 as well, I don't know about 3. And in civ1 you certainly had anarchy when switching to a governement. And you needed techs for specific governements as well.

I still love civ1. Someone should make a civ1 mod for civ4. I'd love to play that.

[JackRudd]

Civ2 Pyramids gave a free granary in every city; Civ3 ones gave a free granary in every city on the continent, and gave a Golden-Age contribution for Industrious, Religious and (C3C only) Agricultural leaders.

[SebP]

Originally posted by Diadem
Ehm, in civ1 the pyramids gave a free granary. In civ2 as well, I don't know about 3. And in civ1 you certainly had anarchy when switching to a governement. And you needed techs for specific governements as well.

I still love civ1. Someone should make a civ1 mod for civ4. I'd love to play that.

No. In civ1, the pyramids opened up all governments and got rid of the anarchy. The free granary was a civ2 thing. And to be sure, i checked the civilopedia just now

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Diadem
Well Firaxis made a mistake with the pyramids. They should give a granary in every city, everybody knows that.

I agree that the GW should act as a river, so crossing it on an attack should give a penalty. But really it's already quite powerful, so it should be made a bit more expensive then.

I'd actually like to have a small wonder, Not Particularly Great Wall, to work as the, uhm, dragons teeth.

[Diadem]

It's a very long time since I played civ1, so my memory may be in error. But I'm quite sure there was no way to get democracy earlier. I remember I *always* beelined for it because it was an absolute game winner.

You are right about it not giving granaries. But are you sure it enabled all governements? Didn't it just reduce anarchy or something?

[Quillan]

It's been 10 years plus since I played the first one, but I think you're right; I think all it did was allow instant government switches.

[Tattila the Hun]

"The Pyramids
Function: The owner may change governments without passing through Anarchy and may choose from any of the 5 government types, even if yet undiscovered."

http://www2.cheat-da-game.net/sid_meiers_civilization/

Quite powerfull.