I see what I'm doing wrong

[D4everman]

I think I've found out what I'm doing wrong. I'm playing CivIV as if it were CivIII. Not completely, but I'm missing some of the nuances. I play sporadically, maybe one or two games every few months. And I keep doing the same things. In my latest game as the Greeks I started off ok, I tried to make the best out of the workers and my few fledgling cities. I knew I couldn't expand to fast or I'd go broke fast. But thats what I did, once the Americans and the French started building cities in unclaimed territory that I wanted. What did I do wrong?

IMHO, I didn't consider using civic choices and/or wonders to increase my cashflow. If I had I probably could have easily afforded to keep science at 100% or at least above 60%. Because i didn't do that I had to hold off founding cities for awhile allowing Washington to place a few where I didn't want them.

I also didn't make use of diplomacy and religion as well as I could have. I founded 2 religions, but i didn't build a shrine or attempt to really spread it. (If I had I could have made some bucks and probably made Washington like me more. yeah, we're getting along fine, but I could have done better.) granted I had my hands full with barbarians for awhile. (They always seem to attack me. Man, I wonder if the AI has that kind of issue and I just doint see it because of the FOW?)

I also rely on defensive wars too much. the japanese leader was hostile to me from day one and I knew in the back of my mind that sooner or later we'd end up at war. The problem I had...and usually have is this. I allowed him to pick the time and place. When Tok decided to attack he brought a lot of catapults, grenadiers and knights with him, and of course went right for a city near his border, but far from my core cities that was lightly defended. Luckily I had cavalry and riflement in a close by city to bail myself out, but it was close and I paid for it by losing a lot of units and a few plantations. It would have been a snap if I had schmoozed washington or Louie a bit more. They are pleased with me, but unwilling to help out with the japanese.

But the real solution would have been to cozy up to George and Louie a bit earlier in the game and convince one or both of them to go to war with the japanese (with or without me). But I was still thinking CivIII. I was hesitant to trade techs with either of them because in Civ III I usually got backstabbed by the AI. I trade a tech and they build better units to pummel me with. Its odd that I made the egyptians into great allies because they're on a different continent....I wasn't worried about them backstabbing me because they wouldn't be able to effectively hurt me due to the distance (at least for awhile). The flipside is that even though they declared war on the japanese with only my asking, they weren't really any help.

As it stands I can win this game still...I'm at the top of the power graph. But if I had stopped thinking in CivIII terms of "horde tech, trust no one, 'religion BAH!', and land grab, land grab, land grab" I could have won it a hundred years ago.

[snoopy369]

Playing as a rapidly expanding civ is possible ... but tough. The key is either to play on a low difficulty level like Noble or easier, where it's not too expensive, or to play a financial civ, and go cottage-cottage-cottage. Also, rush over to courthouses as soon as you can ... and make sure to take full advantage of the forbidden palace as soon as possible.

In battle, use combined arms. A lot. Catapults are very important, and sacrificial units (often catapults) are nearly always needed at some point. Make sure you have the right counter units out there - some of each, usually.

Religion is VERY important for relations with the AI. An AI that has your religion as its own will be your friend almost regardless of anything else; one who holds a different religion is VERY hard to get along with. Either found several religions yourself, and whichever you choose as your own, proselytize far and wide; or (perhaps easier) convert to the religion of one of the nearby AIs as soon as you can (set up several trade routes with the AI, that gets religion quickly transferred) and keep that religion.

Oh, and certain AIs (Tokugawa, Montezuma, the usual suspects) are insane and always end up attacking you Tok's attacked me with a +10 relationship modifier before. Grrr.

Don't be afraid to give into demands/requests for money/tech. If it's one that you can afford to give away, do it - that AI will like you more as a result.

Barbarians attack everyone as far as I know, but the AI handles them better because of the AI's higher level of units (that's the AI's big advantage).

What's your starting strategy? That's probably the root of all of this. When did you build your first worker? Your first settler? Are you buliding cottages or farms on grassland? If you are building a settler before a worker, that's usually a problem. If you're building irrigation on grassland instead of cottage, you should be also either doing a ton of mining in that city (using the irrigation to feed the mines) or going the Great Person (specialist) route ... otherwise, just build cottages on many of your grasslands.

Finally, don't get too caught up in needing a 'large' empire. There's a reason OCC ("One City Challenge") is a playable game mode ... in Civ4, you don't need a huge empire to win. A small, coordinated empire can do wonders ... or Wonders, if you have stone and are Industrious Take into account your trait, if you're industrious or philosophical, consider Wonders (if you have stone/marble); if you're philo., also consider the specialist route (making a ton of specialists in one city trying to get lots of GPs).

Civ4 is a game of strategic decision, and much more so than Civ3 is a game where you have a lot of different 'right way's to play the game. While you're playing, notice what aspects you don't use much, and then make a conscious effort next game to specifically focus on those aspects; if you're a builder, specifically play warmonger for a game, to see those aspects of the game. There's a lot of depth to this game, and a lot of fun to be had playing it

[snoopy369]

BTW, if you're worried about barbarians, station sentries all over the place, and/or build the Great Wall (in Warlords only). The barbarians can only spawn in places where you don't have LOS (in other words, in the FOW) so reducing the area where you don't have LOS helps.

Also, make sure to wipe out the barb cities when they pop up. They generate a lot of barbs ...

If you want more specific advice, I suggest posting some screenshots from different points in your game(s). I'd turn autosaves to save every turn, and to not delete until 500 so you have a whole game's worth of autosaves available. Both settings are in the .ini file.

[D4everman]

I usually end up building a warrior, a worker and another warrior. The first warrior I usually send out in the opposite direction of the freebie warrior to explore.

I usually try to get the techs that will give my workers stuff to do first so I can get the earliest start in building the terrain. Then I get torn between military techs and sciientific ones. I didn't research writing as soon as I could because iron working and archery seemed important to help fight off the barbs and build up a force against monty....'cuz I don't trust him.

I did build a monastery. Monty converted to another religion so I want to try to spam him with my missionaries to get him into my religion.

How do you build a holy city?

[JackRudd]

You need a Great Prophet to build a shrine; if you move him to the city where a religion was founded, you'll get the option to build the shrine.

[snoopy369]

Rule 1. Never trust Monty.
Rule 2. Never trust Tokugawa.



Warrior-worker-warrior is a good start, I actually (depending on the start) go warrior-warrior-worker or warrior-warrior-warrior-worker most of the time, as I like to have a big city to build workers with, and it gives me time to get nonworker techs up front (military or theologic).

What difficulty are you playing on?

[Bobby Chicken]

Rule 3. Never trust Napoleon
He is even worse typically.

Warrior, warrior, warrior, worker or warrior, warrior, worker grows the city to size 3 I presume? Probably good advice, and definitely easier to carry out with precesion than worker, baracks, warrior, settler.

[D4everman]

I usually play on noble level. I've only played 2 full games of civ 4 so I need to get the hang of it before I try to move up a notch. There are so many little nuances in it.

I tried a new game last night, as the indians. I started offas slow as I could, but the only other cive on my continent is Montezuma. I had to take a treasury hit for awhile to cut his expansion down. It worked, in part because his capitol is in a crappy partly tundra area in the southern edge.

But i managed to snag buddhism early in the game and convert his cities to help fund my science. (then that joker founded christianity!)

[jbp26]

Originally posted by D4everman
I usually end up building a warrior, a worker and another warrior. The first warrior I usually send out in the opposite direction of the freebie warrior to explore.

to me, initial build order depends heavily on gameplay settings, specifically size and number of civs. if the number of civs is low and the map fairly large, i like your initial build order (though i might go warrior, warrior, settler). finding those goody huts is important. personally i prefer playing standard maps packed with civs, so im at best going to pop 1-2 huts- another scout first doesnt make sense, so i always go for a settler.

I usually try to get the techs that will give my workers stuff to do first so I can get the earliest start in building the terrain. Then I get torn between military techs and sciientific ones. I didn't research writing as soon as I could because iron working and archery seemed important to help fight off the barbs and build up a force against monty....'cuz I don't trust him.

i almost always go bronze working or masonary first (mining if i have to). masonary if i have stone within my first one or two city spots, bronze working every other time. bronze working is important because axemen keep you alive but even more so for chopping, and masonary is worth the risk to grab the great wall/pyramids.